Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls
Ian, I don't put up power plants either. But I do pay extra for my utility's renewable plan (vote with my dollars), and I try to make my views known to my elected representatives and the general public. If a conversation starts about how ugly windmills are, I'm prepared to explain why I think coal plants are uglier.
|
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls
The conclusion of the paper that we're referring to is that meaningful GHG reduction from vehicle electrification requires a lower-carbon grid. Pretty much the same as my conclusion.
|
'meaningful' is of course subjective.
The paper did not include BEVs in it's analysis.
Given the what the paper does show ... a BEV90 will have a lower 'impact' than a PHEV90... which is already with the grid as it was ( in 2004 ) 7-12% better than HEV.
Environmental impact is only one way to determine MPGe.
GHG is only one type of environmental impact.
My personal priorities put energy efficiency MPGe higher / more important than GHG MPGe.
Currently MPG is at the vehicle level , and does not include upstream losses... that is the current standard people think of when they use MPG... if you want a MPGe number to be understandable to the masses you are limited to the same frame work they already use MPG for.
If we want to include up-stream or full cycle losses ... All Fossil Fuels will have horrible energy efficiency numbers... and you have to change the entire way the consuming public currently views MPG... which is not going to happen... the whole point of MPGe is to make it easier for the average consumer to compare MPG they are used to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls
In the engineering sense, 180g/km is equal to 190g/km, if each of those are plus or minus 20g/km.
|
If we are to stay in the same ratio as the paper determined ... a ~12% reduction from 190 g/km is ~167 g/km... That is the difference determined ... and I do not think / agree with ~167 = ~190.
Even at the paper's low end of 7% ... it would be from 190 to ~177 ... I would still not consider those as equal.
Your 180 and 190 is about ~5.5% ... which is even less than the 7% low end range given in the paper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls
Anyway, I stand behind the claim that the extra weight and frontal area resulting from the Volt's battery pack erases the GHG benefit of electrification vs a hybrid with a small battery, when charging with the grid as it stands in the US today.
|
As long as you realize ... Your sited paper disagrees with you... as does the other sited papers to date.