[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I have tapped this before, but for the record I am a socialist myself. Maybe a mild one, but one all the same I do believe in democracy strongly as well.

I have seen the watermelon comment before (green on the outside, red on the inside) but I don't think its that simple. I don't believe there is a major world conspiracy to grab power for a new elite.

No one said it is a conspiracy. I am saying that it IS part of the Leftist agenda and worldview. There has always been a Left and Right wing of politics for at least the last century. In Europe it is often called Socialism; in America it has been called (actually deliberately misnamed) Liberalism. Recently, since Americans have largely rejected Liberalism (the label and ideology of the Left) the Left has tried to revive an older label for it, Progressivism. For the most part the Right has been pro-capitalist and the Left has been anti-capitalist. That aspect of it still applies. The same people who paraded in the streets under the red banners now often parade under green ones. That is the case and it is not a coincidence; it is essentially the same ideology or a different aspect of it.

Instead I believe there is a trend, a tide if you like, in science which is following the research money and at the same time there are opportunists outside science (in politics for example) who are always ready to exploit the situation for their own ends and these are an all sides of the political spectrum.

Yes, but if you revisit my post about the Union of Concerned Scientists for example, you will see that they all have the same ideology and have formed a collective to support certain goals. It is no coincidence that it is also part and parcel of the Leftist ideology. It simply IS. Also disagreement or doubt of the viewpoint of the group is not tolerated. That is the hallmark of authoritarianism.

The worry I have about things like Carbon Credits and so on is that the people who support this idea are quite happy to embrace the idea of imposing this on all of us without asking, including the suspension of the rights of the public to dissent. And that includes the non-socialist government we have in the UK at the moment.

Your concerns are over the authoritarian nature of the plan. I obviously share those concerns and find them abhorrent. But do realize that in any movement public acceptance is the first step, then political support, then empowering (electing) a government which will act authoritatively to enforce the idea at any cost. This IS a movement, its goals ARE political, and it IS supported and promoted by the Left wing of the political spectrum. Thus it is part of that ideology.

I can remember the authoritarian Right, and I was not supportive of their ideology. Now however, we have the authoritarian Left, which is even more repulsive.

Its not a right or left thing.

It certainly is, but I can understand why a Socialist would downplay that it is.

If not, then why was it the #1 project of AlGore (the candidate of the Left here in America) to the point where he wrote a book about it? You won't find any on the Right (except for those Liberal Republicans known as "RINOS" - meaning Republican In Name Only) supporting it.