Quote:
Originally Posted by bwilson4web
I'll try to give an answer with these assumptions whose ratios somewhat match the parameters of the 1.5L/1.8L Prius:
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I agree on most of this in terms of maths etc. However the real world kind of knocks that all out. The US market is not the world market, neither is Europe but most Diesel cars are sold here.
In Europe the majority of Diesel cars are SMALLER than a Prius - e.g. Yaris sized. Toyota even make a Diesel Yaris for sale here, its actually quite good - chain cam, common rail, direct injection. Take one of those, add the weight and motors for Hybrid-isation and you kind of hit the point where the gain is less than just leaving the small Diesel alone.
Even Toyota struggle - they sell a Diesel Auris (Corolla sized) here with mega MPG (50+ imp) and also try and sell a full Hybrid (petrol) one as well. Not surprisingly nobody wants the Hybrid. Too spendy. The Prius is not sold here as a fuel saver, more as a posing vehicle for wealthy greens.
But then again, lets go bigger. Take the Peugeot 407. Its about the same size as a Chevvy Impala - more or less. It has the option of a 1.6 HDi Diesel engine - 110hp and 150+ lb.ft of torque. Whenever I drive down a UK motorway and wander out into the overtaking lane, some muppet in one is pushing me out of the way, it doesn't hold up traffic in any way at all.
Ford sell the Transit connect you get in the States even with a 75hp Diesel, amongst others. Again, its not slow enough to hold people up, even fully laden.
On top of this of course is the fact that most European cars are manuals. Hybridisation (Toyota style) works best in Autos or CVT.
So why would I choose to buy a Hybrid Diesel vs a non-Hybrid one ?
Take the history of Diesel power vs MPG
1989 - 92 bhp, 48 mpg (Peugeot 306DT)
1991 - 90 bhp 50 mpg (VW TDI)
1991 - 105 bhp 50 mpg (Rover 220 SDi)
1995 - 110 bhp 50 mpg (VW TDI)
2000 - 130 bhp 50 mpg (VW TDI)
2002 - 90 bhp 60 mpg (Peugeot HDi 1.4)
2003 - 150 bhp, 45 mpg (VW TDI)
2004 - 110 bhp 60 mpg (Peugeot HDi 1.6)
2005 - 150 bhp 55 mpg (GM Europe CDTI)
2006 - 90 bhp 60 mpg (FIAT / GM Europe CDTI)
2003 - 75 bhp, 65 mpg (VW TDI Bluemotion)
So why with the potential for a 1.2 3 cyl TDI giving maybe 90-100hp and 0-60 in 10-11 secs and a top wack of 100-110 and with 60-65 mpg in a typical European car would I want to bother with a hybrid ?
Especially as an Ecomodder I could maybe add 10 MPG to that figure without trying hard ?
