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Originally Posted by Frank Lee
Where are we now? Overpopulated, with cluster****s and sprawl filling in between the clusters?
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Are we overpopulated ?
Population has grown but overpopulated ? Malthus said that there were too many of us when we had less than 800m people on the planet. But assuming it is a problem lets look at how maybe we could solve that, using growth by which I mean economic growth. This will help to reduce poverty, and reducing poverty will help to reduce population increase because wealthier people tend to have smaller families.
Hans Rosling on global population growth | Video on TED.com
Yeah there are examples of hige families in the west and at this point someone posts a picture of a huge US family, so I'll do it and save us some time.
Not sure who the cluster****s are, but there quite a few people I also feel the world would be better off without too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee
What does "growth" have to do with quality of life?
Would we not have technical advancements without growth? Why not?
Is there a positive direct connection between quality of life and growth? Why?
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The model of development we have followed for a few thousand years is that economic growth generates wealth, education and knowledge which has in turn resulted in increased living standards, health and life expectancy. Although as they say on investment products, past performance does not guarantee future results, it looks like a reasonable link to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee
Look at a place like, say, California. Today, the nice temperate parts of it along the coast aren't much more than a support system for highways and streets. You can tell it was beautiful once upon a time. If you like cluster****s, it still is. I just think it would have been so much more awesome in that period before every square inch of it had human "development" on it- before my time, unfortunately.  |
Agreed, previous generations seemed to equate the idea of human development as being a good thing no matter where it was or what impact it had - Jungles had to be tamed, wilderness cleared and farmed, rivers diverted, natives 'civilised' - and anything in the way - including wildlife - was forced to move, or die.
Now we know better but it is too late for some places and it is still happening in too many places - all those dams in China for example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee
I've got a "techie" brother-in-law that was so excited about an article he sent me about colonizing Mars. I was all, WTF? What is so great about the prospect of using the Earth up and then infesting another planet?  |
The "Earth First, we'll strip mine the other planets later" approach
I agree, thats barking mad.
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Originally Posted by Frank Lee
You are not done with your answer yet.
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Neither have you
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Originally Posted by jamesqf
...well, if you plotted each of the multitude of factors that go into making up "quality of life" (and accepting that most of them are in some degree subjective), you'd see that many if not most of them have peaked, and are heading downwards.
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I think I need to see some examples of where "most of them have peaked and are heading downwards", but agreed anyone's choices will be subjective and different from anyone else's - mine are not the same as yours probably.
I am not arguing there is nothing to worry about or that we should not make some far reaching changes to how we treat the planet, the resources we use and each other. If you wish to move back to a more organic and simplistic approach to living then go ahead and do so. You are lucky to have the choice.
Humans have existed in pretty much every environment on the planet except under the sea. We lived at the north pole, in deserts, jungles, islands and in temporate forrests like Europe. There are clear examples of where we failed - Easter Island, Olduvai and so on but for the most part we have been successful.
My position is that we don't have only one choice - going back to an older way of life and expecting people to die out - and starkly this is what is being suggested in some places albeit not here.
We have a choice of development, growth, mitigation and adaption as well.
Rant over. £1.42 a litre this morning, but the oil price has eased again.