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slowmover · 10-20-2011, 01:22 PM

A vague chart that suggests a corelation / causation relationship is hardly evidence against well established economic literature on the subject.

If the chart is vague, you should point out where. The same exists for taxation rates. The higher on the rich, the greater is societal prosperity. A middle class isn't constructed from nothing. "Well-established"? You are kidding aren't you? One may choose to believe in the equivalent of religious training -- a madrassa; nothing else explains the non-real world of economics -- but easily scaled walls are not "well-established".

The fact that the US has an enormous undocumented work force that labors illegally for less than minium wage is testament to the demand for low wage work.

No, it's testament to profit being a greater perceived good than human welfare, dignity and the rest. The cost to the average citizen to raise prices commensurate are negligible. It might -- just might -- offset the tax and other unfunded burdens created as a result. If you live in ciy of 400k persons or fewer and Wal-Mart comes in, your costs as city have just risen. Individually and collectively.

Are we a society based on property, or on people? You should read more deeply into this. The poor society -- in all it's aspects -- is the one you describe. It misses the purpose of government altogether. Ayn Rand junk. It's a very long way off from what built this country.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially-crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

Rationalize wages? Of course. An economy is nothing but a set of rules, it is neither natural nor foreordained. It looks as though a complete reading of, say, Adam Smith, even J.M. Keynes is in order. Misconceptions, here. Do you set the rules to benefit a minority, or is your idea of a just society based on maximizing opportunity for all? Taxes are both incentive and disincentive, as should be. How and where applied is another.

The Peak Oil connection to any of this is: At a time when the economy is in the toilet (in no small part due to speculators and the capture of government by giant private forces), Americans (among others) will have to make changes in their lives where -- for the first time in about 300-years -- there is not cheaply-acquired energy as a sop, a backstop to expensive changes. Individually or societally. Whether the economy stumbles along (reset, reset, reset) the costs will continue to rise (not just inflation). There will come a point where what people are able to pay for energy -- and what is available at a price they can afford -- will diverge.

And at that point, all bets are off. Just due to oil.

.

10-20-2011, 01:22 PM	#49 (permalink)
slowmover Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 2,442 2004 CTD - '04 DODGE RAM 2500 SLT Team Cummins 90 day: 19.36 mpg (US) Thanks: 1,422 Thanked 737 Times in 557 Posts	A vague chart that suggests a corelation / causation relationship is hardly evidence against well established economic literature on the subject. If the chart is vague, you should point out where. The same exists for taxation rates. The higher on the rich, the greater is societal prosperity. A middle class isn't constructed from nothing. "Well-established"? You are kidding aren't you? One may choose to believe in the equivalent of religious training -- a madrassa; nothing else explains the non-real world of economics -- but easily scaled walls are not "well-established". *The fact that the US has an enormous undocumented work force that labors illegally for less than minium wage is testament to the demand for low wage work.* No, it's testament to profit being a greater perceived good than human welfare, dignity and the rest. The cost to the average citizen to raise prices commensurate are negligible. It might -- just might -- offset the tax and other unfunded burdens created as a result. If you live in ciy of 400k persons or fewer and Wal-Mart comes in, your costs as city have just risen. Individually and collectively. Are we a society based on property, or on people? You should read more deeply into this. The poor society -- in all it's aspects -- is the one you describe. It misses the purpose of government altogether. Ayn Rand junk. It's a very long way off from what built this country. There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially-crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. Rationalize wages? Of course. An economy is nothing but a set of rules, it is neither natural nor foreordained. It looks as though a complete reading of, say, Adam Smith, even J.M. Keynes is in order. Misconceptions, here. Do you set the rules to benefit a minority, or is your idea of a just society based on maximizing opportunity for all? Taxes are both incentive and disincentive, as should be. How and where applied is another. The Peak Oil connection to any of this is: At a time when the economy is in the toilet (in no small part due to speculators and the capture of government by giant private forces), Americans (among others) will have to make changes in their lives where -- for the first time in about 300-years -- there is not cheaply-acquired energy as a sop, a backstop to expensive changes. Individually or societally. Whether the economy stumbles along (reset, reset, reset) the costs will continue to rise (not just inflation). There will come a point where what people are able to pay for energy -- and what is available at a price they can afford -- will diverge. And at that point, all bets are off. Just due to oil. . Last edited by slowmover; 10-20-2011 at 01:33 PM..