Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic
I've written at least 6 replies to this thread, and deleted every one of them. When I proof read them they just didn't come out as expressing what I really wanted to say.
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Yeah, I've done that at times. More often I just do a lot of revision, which sometimes involves weighing every word. Still, some people will react defensively to just about anything, even when no offense is intended.
I probably shouldn’t wade into this, but I will in the hope that it might generate some thought about the differences between criticism and incivility. I have moderated a list for many years and have often thought about where the line is drawn, so here are some examples to think about.
Let’s say someone says “you’re wrong” or “you are misinformed (or ignorant)” or “that’s a stupid idea”. Is that uncivil? What if someone espouses ideas that are Socialist or radical environmentalist? Is it uncivil to point out that they are a Socialist or a radical environmentalist? Is that an “ad hominem” to identify them with the ideology they promote?
Now compare those with “you’re stupid” or “only an idiot would say that”. Can you see the difference? “You” are not your ideas; anyone is capable of changing their ideas, especially if they can be persuaded that their ideas or views are inapplicable, foolish or just plain wrong. But that is different than an outright insult. A genuine insult lacks any information other than to be insulting; it has no socially redeeming value, and it tells us nothing about the recipient but a lot about the one who is hurling the insult.
These days the trend is to label whatever we dislike, disagree with or take the slightest offense to as being an “ad hominem”. That’s currently the trendy buzzword phrase and it is often misapplied, or applied in an overly broad way. Pleas that we just “be nice” or “can’t we all get along” or “don’t be an asshole” (I’m merely quoting what was previously stated and allowed) are all nebulous and subjective, telling us nothing about where the line is drawn between criticism and incivility. But nowadays anything said that is critical or negative is increasingly considered to be an offense. On some lists the all the crybabies need do is cry "that's not NICE!" or "I'm offfffended!" and some moderators (afraid that anyone might become offended) leap to their defense. Fortunately, for the most part this list hasn't gone to such extremes.
I’ve found that those who cry “ad hominem” the loudest and whine about closing a thread when any altercation, negativity or discomfort arises are often the ones who provoke it, then cry foul at receiving a measured response in return that points out their own taunting or sarcasm which initiated the conflict. In short, they know how to dish it out, but can’t take it in return.