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THANK YOU TO ALL!!! I apprecite the suggestions and help!
I did not start this thread to reinforce my own opinions. I really wanted everyone's input. Unfortunately... I didn't get exactly what i was looking for....and that was something I had overlooked. I was hoping to find a "Magic" vehicle...and no surprise.. it simply does not exsist.
I will say this: I received a LOT of encouragement to get a hybrid. But... they don't make a Hybrid "wagon" or "Crossover" or "Suv" I would consider either budget or reliability..
Also, I can and do work on my own vehicles.. but, don't know enough about hybrids to feel comfortable fixing something myself (or paying someone with the knowledge that I could do it myself and how much that would cost).
So........... my original query was:
I am in the market for a "NEW" car. Budget $14k
It MUST seat 5 and I would like to see 40+ mpg.
Also, I added:
So... I figure 40+ mpg is the target (and I would be happy with 32, 33, 34, 35+ while getting there).
I considered about 10 vehicles. We narrowed it down to about 5 (VW TDI, FIT, SCION, CUBE and SOUL). Actually, the Sould was never a contender........
We drove a few hybrids and I liked them overall. Just TOO MUCH $$$ for what's on the market. One looked like it was a "taxi" in another life, another was stinky had a lot of miles (probably hard miles)...the rest were just either too old for the money or out of budget. (We had to be really careful not to bump ourselves).
I drove the Hyundai Elantra I think. It boasts 40mpg...... BUT...on the forums everyone seemed to be getting closer to 30 COMBINED!!! Plus they are pretty expensive even used. (the new technology is TOO new). AND... no wagons only sedan--so less luggage space.
We looked at and drove the FIT. It was OK. The rear area was frankly too small. Again... this vehicle needs to suit OUR needs.
That pretty much left the Scion and Cube.
For the heck of it....I drove some 10+ year old vehicles that were really clean for their age and debated straight cash with some left over... Ultimately....it was all about replacing a German car with leather, heated seats, power everything memory everything that rode quiet and smooth with just over 100k on the clock.....with a "Beater". Don't get me wrong....I have a 1951 Chev Business coupe that looks like what people would call a "Rat Rod".. faded original paint and 70k original miles with a hot rodded v-8.
The wife has a grad degree and works in an office... so she has parameters. AGAIN... don't get me wrong... we bought the VW...because it was $10k-$15k less than the Audi wagon and had 90% of the bells and whistles, etc.. and was built IN Germany (not brazil or Mexico)....AND... my wife drive's a "Shiney" almost 9 year old Passat now.... and she would drive a "SHINEY" Toyota, Honda, etc.... just as well.
So..... ultimately.....I did what any responsible car shopper would do:
I let my KIDS PICK!!!!!!!!!!!
From 4 Scions, 3 Nissan Cube's, a Used Mazda 3, and a few other cars.
I kinda loaded the deck.
I "Vetted" all of the prospects and let them sit in LOTS of cars.
They liked the Mazda 3 "speed"...until I explained the fuel economy thing and sat them in the "bean can" model......... and that was that.
They Hyundai Elantra was TRULY comparable as far as luxury (in a Japanese way)...but too expensive and I didn't like what I read on the forums about mpg. The boys did like a little sporty 3 door coupe though.
We looked at a LOT of cars..... and they settled on the Scion and Cube. As far as influence... I "Directed" them away from stuff that didn't meet the criteria (too much $$, too small, bad mpg, etc)....Otherwise I made it FUN and let them decide.
Being little kids they ended up liking the Scion and the Cube.
With that... I went shopping.
Negotiations are my Forte'.... my wife...not so much.
3 trips later.... we bought something.
My M.O. was as follows:
I pulled on the lot, drove out where the car was i wanted to look at..... then when the saleman came up I sized them up. If they were slimey, creepy, or running 100 mph... I brushed them off....if they were friendly, I was friendly.
In most cases the vehicle was locked... they went to get the key. It is also in their best interest to get you to DRIVE the car... so I did that several times. having kids was a HUGE plus! They were cranky, bored, the car was cramped, etc. It allowed us to drive without the salesman a few times.
If the vehicle met our requirements.. I told the salesman I used to be in the car business ( I was)...then teased about all of the perks I missed....
In most cases it landed me in the Sales manager's office... with him showing me the "slip" when they bought the car at auction, took it in trade or bought it from another dealer.
if it was over what i wanted to pay-- I danced with them a little and told them I would stop back by on the "be-back" bus.....
Finally we found a Scion Xd that was clean with low miles.. but they wouldn't budge on the price. We left.
We liked the Scion but would rather have an XB. We found a 2011 Nissan Cube brand new with every accessory known to man.... but it was $1k under msrp and $18k was waaaay too much.
Another Cube was beat to death, scratches, rear wiper missing, etc. Dealer said it was the owners ex-wife's car (lol).
We found a nice clean 2009 XB...and negotiated them down to $14k. It had 25k on the clock. I wanted to pay less.
We looked at a white 2010 Cube with a body kit.. 15k miles.... but "Sale Price" was $17k... and the guy said that was bottom dollar. I would have tried harder.. but i had to go with my gut.
Several other cars (non scion or cube) in the mix over the 3 different days.
Most were during the week except the 09 xb and 2 cubes. We drove about 35 miles to take the boys to a Lego store and stop off somewhere we wanted to go... while at it... we looked at another Scion and as the day wound down........ a 2010 Nissan Cube at a Chevy store.
It was advertised online for $15k and change "On sale". We pulled up to it and the "Hang Tag" said: $14k and change. WOW!
The salesman was less than optimal. He was nice enough but kida Jekyll and Hyde.......
We drove it and liked it. It had Waaaay more equipment than I wanted.
We pulled back in and the salesman went stright into "SALES" mode. "He said.. let get this DONE".
I gave him the: "we looked at several and need a minute"... that seemed to irritate the guy.
Also.. no manner of "I was in the car business" worked on this guy. American car dealerships have a "Bad" rep... and it's because of their business model. Take it or leave it.......... The good thing was... this particular dealer sold a LOT of trucks and had several classic Chevies on display (owners cars)...so they had NO DESIRE to have that Cube on the lot and knew NOTHING about it.
So we spent 45 minutes in the "box"... never met the sales manager.. and they were very flat and high pressure. I have purchsed "a lot" of vehicles over the years....and sold cars for a living... so ...eh....it wasn't so bad.
Again, the boys were my wingman... thirsty, hungry, bored.. "we wanna go the the lego store"........ I offered $14k even.. they balked. Finally the salesman came back with a completely different attitude. He said: "We can't sell it to you. (a new ploy?).... the tag inside was a mistake".
I say:...."yeah, well I offered THAT"... pointing to the sheet.... it was a little less than what they wanted on the tag with a detail and a tank of gas, car fax both keys and ALL of the books. He left....for a while. The sales manager came over and said " we made a mistake...blah, blah, blah".... after a little trouble.. they honored it. Also tried to get me on plates.. it already had good plates and tags.
They took it in trade on a Camaro.....so if they UA'd it (under allowed)..they still made $$$....if it WAS a mistake... good for me.. bummer for them.
The point is... we got what we wanted. It suits our needs and clocked 35 mpg on the way home (after side trips) of about 65 miles. So far, the computer says: 31 mpg with ALL local stop and go for 2 days....but the computers are usually off.. so we'll see when this thing runs out of gas.
The specifics:
2010 Nissan Cube Krom edition. 12k miles. Purchased Oct 2010.. so about 17 months of warranty left. It's an automatic (CVT) and is as clean as imaginable (I found one tiny scratch and a couple marks on the plastic trim in the back).
All that was on the carfax was the original purchase and one registration renewal. The orignal owner was also from a pretty expensive area North of Seattle (good sign).
High Retail book for KBB was like $19k.... low trade in was around $13k......
So......that's it.
It NOT ALWAYS....about the best mileage. I was very careful to choose something that fit our lifestyle. I have a full sized Chevy truck that is good for maybe 15-18 mpg on a good day. Our next vehicle (in a year or 2 will likely be a Tahoe/ Denali/ Expedition...type truck for towing horses).
We'll see if the Cube gets ANYWHERE near 40 mpg... and being 2 years old (3 soon) will give us nearly a year and a half to resell it as a 3 year old with xxx miles...if it doesn't meet our expectations.
Time to detail the Passat, make any minor repairs, service and sell it on.............
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