[niky]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

When? Start from the late '50s-early '60s period, when the VW Beetle was first imported: what small cars did the domestic automakers produce? The Corvair (which wasn't all that small), and the Corvette/'57 T-Bird, which were aimed at a different market segment.

Then in the '70s the domestics produced some mid-sized cars like the Ford Pinto & Chevy Vega, which did fit your "truly, incredibly horrible... compared to the imports" description, but they were small only in comparison to the "ull-sized" domestics. The imports were all much smaller. That continued to be the case, as I recall, until the Geo Metro was introduced - and it was just a re-badged import.

Around the oil embargo time, Chevy had the Citation and Ford had the Pinto... then Escort. And during these times, they still outsold the imports. The "small" car of the time that came closest to cracking number one was the Golf... which wasn't Japanese. Look at VW's US market share versus the Japanese... not great. Simply because their reliability as of late has not been that good. Quality is everything. And what the Japanese did better than anyone else was make their cruddiest cars to the same quality as the rest of the line-up.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Hadn't noticed Suzuki going bankrupt. Did I miss something?

They won't because they're huge in India and Asia. Because what cars Suzuki makes are ideally suited for those markets. But they're nearly dead in America because, again, Americans don't like small cars, at least not in enough numbers for them to consider importing their best-sellers from elsewhere... and because GM made them sell absolutely craptastic Daewoo rebadges... which didn't help their image all that much.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

However, I don't think I suggested that (non-specialty) manufacturers could exist on small cars alone. That's why the imports widen their brand by producing mid-size models as well. But I think recent history has proven that the converse is also true, and that manufacturers can't exist on big cars (plus SUVs & trucks) alone either, at least absent multiple billions in government life support.

No one can survive on a single product line-up. But in the US, again, the best selling cars are all big ones. Which is why domestic makes focus on those.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

How much of that is by Honda's choice, though? Lots of design decisions are dictated by government regulations.

Government regulations don't cover the size of your trunk or back seat. Very little of that extra mass goes to frontal crash structure... especially considering Honda doesn't increase engine displacement as much as other manufacturers do.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

But those small cars do sell, don't they? I know I see Minis all over the place.

And again... why do MINIs sell? Are they as fuel efficient as possible? Not with a turbo, an automatic and heavy-ass runflats. Are they as spacious as they could be? Absolutely not. That Z-axle rear end is about as practical as putting a motorcycle swing-arm on a bicycle... and takes up more space. Are they cheap to run and own? Go ask someone who's had to have one of those zillion niggling trim issues fixed, who's had to have their fuel system flushed to prevent damage to the GDI system, or who's had to replace the DMF.

MINIs sell because they're luxury cars, period. They're affordable simply because they're small luxury cars.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

'Cept it's not either/or. It's a case of selling the few hundred larger models PLUS the few thousand small ones. So what if profit on the smaller ones is minimal? You still have your dealers paying for buildings, staff, etc while waiting around to make their one daily sale of a large car. They might as well sell small ones as spend the time playing solitaire :-)

They won't sell enough of the small ones to make it worth their while. A dealer will stock up on items that will either sell or bring people into the showroom. Most small cars do neither.

Hopefully times are changing, and people are more willing to consider small cars. But considering most consumers consider a Fit an "unsafe penalty box" and sales have been declining every year since the 2008 spike, truly small and economical cars like the i10, the Aygo and perhaps even Murray's T25, will not even be on most people's radars for a long while.

It's a chicken or egg thing. No demand, no sales. No sales, no imports. No imports, no visibility. No visibility, no demand. Perhaps if the Chevrolet Spark experiment is successful, everyone else will follow. We can only hope.