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Originally Posted by slowmover
Is there that much of a pollutant differential between the two to offset the extra fuel burned by the cleaner/newer car? Plus, make that 100,000 miles of fuel and pollutant.
We tend to live in metro areas. And drive short distances. And idle. The local concentrations of air/water pollutants are the "killer". If we banned non-electric cars from metro areas (so to speak) then IC engines could be re-configured for those best able to use them.
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My "arguement" if you will, is there that much of a reduction to live w/ the fact that you now have to burn 30% more fuel, for my given example? And what does that extra fuel requirement do to the environment? I think through increased efficiency that pollutants can be reduced but car makers aren't necessarily making them more efficient, just cleaner for the given amount of fuel they burn, thus increasing the amount of fuel that is burned, thus still increasing the output of pollutants.
I suppose, and i'm probably wrong, take the current pollutant output of a new 30mpg honda civic, and multiple that by 33%.
Now take a late 80's early 90's 50 mpg honda civic and see what the pollutant #'s are.
For the given rate of collection/sampling, either time or distance, is the new car at least 33% cleaner, for the life of the car? And I'm also trying to say, take into consideration the additional pollutants, oil spills, etc.. of producing, transporting and storing 33% more oil and fuel.
I know thats not a perfect answer or arguement but I'm just trying to think outside the box. I know some cities are cleaner and some older cars did put out a lot of cr@p into the air but if Honda could make a 50 mpg civic almost 30 years ago, wtf can't car makers get close now?? I don't understand it, maybe i'm being a conspiracy theorist
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Also, almost all my driving is in small towns and semi-rural areas
Same for Interstate highways . . a warmed-up vehicle well spec'd for its operation isn't "polluting" all that much (there will always be some . . . . ) Put freight back on trains (and electric trolley trucks for big regions), put passengers back on regional/national trains, etc, and further reduce the users needing IC vehicles.
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No doubt a warmed up vehicle is the way to go but even if we use block heaters all the time, there is still a fuel source, somewhere being burned up, to make the electricity.
True, we probably do under utilize trains for delivering goods but I doubt the masses would be willing to modify their daily schedule as much as it may be required.
I have been a bus passenger before and I had to go back to driving. It cost me over 2 hours of time out of my day, plus when i shop, i do purchase for the week or several weeks when possible. I currently live 1/2 mile from the fencing to the airport, however it still takes me nearly 45 min/1 hr to get home from the airport using the rail due to the time scheduling. If my flight gets in at 10 and I have no luggage, I'm still not home till 1 am due to the extended time delay.
Mass transit for some it may be doable but the masses no. I don't know a single mom or dad for that matter, who'd be willing to get their kids up hours earlier so she could get them on the rail, to school and get her self to work. Its just not feasible. Not everyone wants to have a 12-13 hour day. And before someone says take the school bus, it depends where you live. When I was in school I lived to close, 8 miles...... so I biked to school.
I've also had the luxury of traveling to some 3rd world countries and the subway system in Beijing is set up well but it takes me 7 bucks to get from the airport to city-center and 45 mins to do so in late morning w/ light foot traffic. Transportation in other countries is interesting, brazil, budapest, etc.. we have it good here. Fuel is cheap and our cars run extremely well compared to what i've seen around the world.
In a perfect world we'd work from home, teleport to places but it's just not gonna happen.
The next time someone who works for a living and they have a family says take the bus or rail. Try it and see if it is something you'd be willing to do it for a week, hell try a month. As I'd rather spend some extra $$ on fuel and spend more time w/ my family. In some regards it's a catch-22.