I hope doubleposting is okay, the single monolithic wall of text was looking too big. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
Not going to add an hour onto a 4 hour trip just to save between 1 and 2 gallons of fuel.
Or turn what should be a 1 day drive into a 2 day drive just to save maybe 10 gallons of fuel.
I can get more fuel, but can't get more time.
I understand the sentiment. But there is more than one way to look at this. Most folks who make this particular argument are only hurrying to pick up the TV remote control.
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Well that's them not me.
In town for the daily commute I have more money and less time - saving 1/2 gal to extend the commute 30mins isn't worth it, I expect to be commuting to college 1.5hrs per day as it is. I'd rather take slightly more loan for another $100/month to save the time when i'll already arrive home exhausted from a beyond full time load that I expect to be having. The "towing" use will happen on weekends when I run things of opportunity out to a farm (the target where i'm hauling everything to), or during periods off like in summer or during vacation, where I will have more time than money. Running slow sometimes if needed wont bother me, especially if two vehicles stretched a bit in their duties can replace requiring a dedicated tow rig especially one that wastes fuel while running out unladen because of boxy aerodynamics since it probably will be half the time, though some occasional "round robin" pickups of loading a trailer with multiple pickups of different things will try to be done as much as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
If lowest cost of ownership is as important as cost of operation, then vehicle longevity (and components such as tires) also have weight to consider.
Also, let's not think that fuel will always be as cheap or as easily available as it is today.
Thus the above question about being specific in what is being towed over how many miles, and over a given amount of time is crucial to beginning an answer to Towing with Efficiency.
IOW, the details of use matter more than the specifics of the rig (as there is more than one way to skin a cat).
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I completely agree on all factors, and due to friends in the oil industry full expect radically increased oil prices over the next 8 years (2-3x what we have now easily) and that's actually part of the reason for this extensive research. Everything is going to go into a spreadsheet. Cost to acquire, cost to modify, fuel cost, maintenance cost, expected reliability of the platform, other costs (including the cost of a vehicle spending most of it's time sitting instead of seeing regular use, with the insurance and such to do so marked up). Right now I have "expected loads" I want to haul over the next 8 years or so which i'm planning around. Cheap or free craigslist type stuff that only pays for itself if you can bring it home without excessive transport cost. The character of those loads might change though leading to me reopening all the notes and calculations I did in the future and deciding a different set of vehicles is now more suited for the jobs. For awhile I thought a minivan would be my best second vehicle - that's now changing into a RWD sedan after more research and playing with numbers. As future situation changes that could be replaced by a Chevy Astro, a fullsize superduty pickup of some sort, or back down to an FWD Pontiac Trans Sport and i'll have the numbers backing each choice of when something paid for itself and when it justifies switching.
I'm pretty set on the Saturn as the daily commuter. Mileage is not as good as some even smaller cars like the Geo Metro but having a Geo and a Saturn probably doesn't improve the mileage enough to justify the Geo, and I can't haul any weight worth pulling in the Geo. It's also better put together from a reliability standpoint - more maintenance cost on the Geo starts to kill the issue.
Getting one vehicle to do the job of two is one of the best money savers I can do. There's also nonfinancial things i'm considering. I HAVE to have two working vehicles - I need a backup to know I can always get to work or school on time in event of a problem. I hope to have a motorcycle for even more efficient commuting in town but that's not all season all weather. The trailer storage is free because it folds up in the garage, the weight limit on that is 3500lbs/it will already be custom and they don't make larger folding trailers that i've found so that's another forced limit I design around. More than two cars have to be stored offsite - that's a cost. Or it has to be parked at the future farm - then it's a mileage cost to go pick it up first. I want to experiment with SVO extensively as a fuel (and getting the recycled building supplies for the greenhouse i'll be growing the plants in year round is part of the job here), that requires a diesel anyways, which requires hauling home the parts vehicle i'm pulling it out of. If i'm successfully growing that at the farm that alters fuel costs substantially making me convert other vehicles to it. So the cost to convert to diesel is not always a barrier.
Vehicles I plan to set up I generally plan to have for the long haul. My dad kept cars for 10-20 years and maintained them to run forever, the two I already have are 10 and 20 years old. If they tow what I want, and convert to diesel, and then run off SVO nicely I might well still be driving both in 2040. But I won't do anything if the numbers dont' make sense, and all the extensive research here and exploring of options is what helps me see all the different ways I can go about trying to solve the "lowest total cost of ownership while still getting the job done" problem.
Details of use is why I seem to harp so much on ideas that others may want to discount or think that a rig is unsuitable over. What I really basically need right now is a full size RWD sedan that can safely pull 8500lbs OR possibly an El Camino or minitruck doing the same for best aero, which runs on diesel. That I seem to get *so close* is what makes me look to see what the risks are of slightly stretching things or tweaking little factors to try and make that work out. My willingness to research comprehensively things outside of those factors is because my mind is still open, future factors could change, and i'm taking extensive notes on all this in case they do change in the future justifying a different tow setup for other reasons. (there are some job-related opportunities I will be experimenting with that would change me to a different tow vehicle, under the "dual use" principle - I only need to tow on the weekends, and the business can subsidize a van it needs anyways)