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Michael Moore · 09-10-2012, 01:42 AM

beatr911, the FF pioneers like Creasey and Newall saw it as a way to improve performance, economy, comfort and safety all at once. Lower the rider and reduce frontal area and economy and top speed (and acceleration from reduced drag) should all improve which is no news to the ecomodders.

There are several FF'd EX500s in Ireland and France, with the Irish one getting out for track day action:

http://bikeweb.com/files/images/PFGPZFF01.jpg

http://bikeweb.com/files/images/gpz400_ff_td_1-271.jpg

Arthur Middleton's GPZ400/500FF | FF Web

Arthur loaned his bike to one of the faster club racers who quite enjoyed riding it. You can see that his heels are above the front axle level. Look at the fairing and tail section that Arthur designed for his VFR500FF in the image album. That sees significant street miles (or kilometers).

Clearly, you can modify an existing bike (and on the Kawas above that's mostly extended swing arm, remote steering head and lowered seat and FF pegs). I figure that any motorcycle project worth doing is worth doing to excess so I want to build a complete new one and optimize (or at least fiddle with) everything that I can.

The SV325 is the closest modern equivelant to an Aermacchi/Guzzi/Motobi "flat" single that I could afford to build (I considered doing a Duc but that jumps the costs up, and I've had Ducs before and wanted to try something different), but it is a type of project that requires a lot of technical infrastructure.

Jim, running the swing arm as you've drawn in may have been avoided by the Gurneys because of poor squat/anti-squat chain geometry. I did a quick model with a steeply angled swing arm and matching sprocket and it seemed to have a lot of squat under acceleration. With an already low bike having significant pro-squat characteristics could be a problem. You'd also have to move the top damper mount forward to avoid a falling rate, and that would then intrude on the rider space.

The Gurneys all seem to be pretty tall (at least Dan is) and I think they designed their bikes for themselves. I'm 6' and the one I sat on was a long stretch to the bars, and you can see that Tony is having to lean forward off of the seat back on the Yamagator. He's several inches shorter than I am.

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/F...gator2crop.jpg

I think Royce is not very tall and this photo shows where he thinks the Gurney handgrips should be:

Royce Creasey tries the Alligator, 2003 | FF Web

cheers,
Michael

09-10-2012, 01:42 AM	#20 (permalink)
Michael Moore EcoModding Apprentice Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Posts: 142 Thanks: 6 Thanked 53 Times in 31 Posts	beatr911, the FF pioneers like Creasey and Newall saw it as a way to improve performance, economy, comfort and safety all at once. Lower the rider and reduce frontal area and economy and top speed (and acceleration from reduced drag) should all improve which is no news to the ecomodders. There are several FF'd EX500s in Ireland and France, with the Irish one getting out for track day action: http://bikeweb.com/files/images/PFGPZFF01.jpg http://bikeweb.com/files/images/gpz400_ff_td_1-271.jpg Arthur Middleton's GPZ400/500FF \| FF Web Arthur loaned his bike to one of the faster club racers who quite enjoyed riding it. You can see that his heels are above the front axle level. Look at the fairing and tail section that Arthur designed for his VFR500FF in the image album. That sees significant street miles (or kilometers). Clearly, you can modify an existing bike (and on the Kawas above that's mostly extended swing arm, remote steering head and lowered seat and FF pegs). I figure that any motorcycle project worth doing is worth doing to excess so I want to build a complete new one and optimize (or at least fiddle with) everything that I can. The SV325 is the closest modern equivelant to an Aermacchi/Guzzi/Motobi "flat" single that I could afford to build (I considered doing a Duc but that jumps the costs up, and I've had Ducs before and wanted to try something different), but it is a type of project that requires a lot of technical infrastructure. Jim, running the swing arm as you've drawn in may have been avoided by the Gurneys because of poor squat/anti-squat chain geometry. I did a quick model with a steeply angled swing arm and matching sprocket and it seemed to have a lot of squat under acceleration. With an already low bike having significant pro-squat characteristics could be a problem. You'd also have to move the top damper mount forward to avoid a falling rate, and that would then intrude on the rider space. The Gurneys all seem to be pretty tall (at least Dan is) and I think they designed their bikes for themselves. I'm 6' and the one I sat on was a long stretch to the bars, and you can see that Tony is having to lean forward off of the seat back on the Yamagator. He's several inches shorter than I am. http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/F...gator2crop.jpg I think Royce is not very tall and this photo shows where he thinks the Gurney handgrips should be: Royce Creasey tries the Alligator, 2003 \| FF Web cheers, Michael __________________ http://www.eurospares.com