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Old 12-06-2012, 01:14 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheEnemy View Post
IPCC, NASA, NOAA all agree that the sun has increased in output and is responsible for at least some warming, since you don't trust my word, why don't you trust theirs, they are climate scientists after all.
There are several ways in which the sun's output can be said to be increasing, but you are using these literally true statements to mislead. Kind of analogous to the way denialists used to point out that Pluto was warming too (true, because its orbit was taking it closer to the sun), so Earth's warming must be due to the sun.

1) The sun's output has increased over its lifetime (Faint young Sun paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ), but a change of about 30% over several billion years is going to be negligible over the course of human history, and so is irrelevant to global warming.

2) The solar cycle is currently on the upswing from its low point, so it's literally true that the sun's output is increasing right now. But that increase is too small to have a noticable effect (given thermal lag and all).

3) You use a proxy reconstruction starting back in the 1700s to infer an increase in solar output. If you look at the graph of actual measurements, you see that solar output has actually decreased very slightly over the last half century, the same time period in which warming has been observed.