Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf
It would seem fairly simple (technically) to build a system with a flywheel as buffer between battery and motor. You'd want a capacity of 2X braking energy from highway speed, and aim to keep it at 1X...
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Yup.
It would also be fairly simple to build a capacitor bank as a buffer.
And it would also be fairly simple to build a battery pack that can itself handle the short term peak power demands without a buffer ... the more total energy storage one has , the less useful high power density becomes ... this is the direction most OEMs seem to be currently favoring... as the larger energy capacity has it's own additional benefits as well.
Which way works best or what design and in what application ... varies ... devil in the details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic
Thanks Ian, I know I can count on you for a precise explanantion although it may be a little over my head technically speaking. Lets see if I got the message.
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Sorry if I poorly explained anything ... by all means ask and I will try and elaborate / clarify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic
There are systems that could work with electricity and batteries that could compete with a hydraulic system, even exceed a hydraulic system that is state of the art to the best of your knowledge, of which I do not know how extensive your knowledge is relative to hydraulics, but I think it would be safe to assume it is substantial.
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yup...
Either platform could potentially be better than the other ... depending on the specifics of a specific design and build ... and what application that specific build was used in ... use the right tool for the job ... doesn't mean tool A is worse or inferior than tool B in general ... but for specific applications it might be ... using an chain saw to try and cut your bread is as bad as trying to use a bread knife to cut down a tree.
As for my knowledge ... I have no doubt other people know more than me about a great many things ... and I'm happy to learn ... I find the best method for both sides is for both sides to explain the reasons for their position ... then either side can potentially learn from the other about one thing or another... if I explain the reasons I think X , and someone sees an error in one or more of those reasons ... I get the chance to learn something ... maybe it is enough for me to change my mind about X ... or maybe on it's own it isn't enough ... but either way I've learned.
Energy efficiency in general has been an interest of mine my whole life ... So I am always happy to explore , research , experiment , etc ... about different methods and ways to squeeze out 1% more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic
Now, my question is do you think it is practical to develop and produce the combination of electrical components you referred to and incorporate them into a vehicle that is practical and reliable, and if so at what cost? Not demanding precision in any way, but in your last paragraph you referred to reliability and cost as two factors that must be considered, which is the most important point, as any vehicle must be affordable to be successful.
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Yes.
But I don't think it is one sided either ... I think both platforms could be designed in a practical , reliable, and cost effective vehicle ... but they are not equal technologies in all things ... that isn't necessarily a bad thing ... one wants to use the right tool for the right job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic
I just believe that pathway is hydraulic and my design is based on the understanding of the sum of the objectives, but possibly biased towards the understanding that if the average driver can not afford it, it will never be commercially successful.
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Back when HEVs first started the electric and battery option had enough of a technological and financial edge to get it's foot in the door first for the consumer vehicle application.
For any other platform to unseat it now would require a rather significant technological leap.
Even if we were to assume for the moment that hydraulic tech was 100% identically capable as the Electric + Battery option ... the investments have already been made for factories , supply chains , workers trained , products tested , built , sold , etc ... even if it were exactly the same it would not be a smart business choice to invest again in something that isn't significantly better than what one is already setup for.
Once it gets it's foot in the door first ... it feeds itself ... it gets more research funding for improvements ... it costs less due to economies of scale , and mass production already established ... etc ... etc.
It is only if a specific platform starts to run into serious scientific barriers and limitations that other smaller scale technologies have a chance ... this is what we saw with the ICE ... it started to run into more and more difficult issues to squeeze another 1% out of it... thus giving the chance for other smaller scale technologies.
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The future can change ... of course... as science and technology changes , etc... or even without science of tech change ... market demand can change.
My personal point of view has a preference for the electric/battery option as the technology I am aware of stands today ... but I will happily admit that is completely dependent on the design and application ... it is not universal.
For me at least ... in terms of a vehicle to get from point A to point B ... when I think of the highest net efficiency platform to be able to do that application ... currently that is electrics and batteries from solar power ... all other options are currently significantly less net efficient ... and the electric / battery path for HEVs ... is a logical stepping stone for the technology to scale up with , get market acceptance etc ... then the PHEVs ... repeat ... than the BEVs ... repeat ... all the while more and more solar energy deployed... so for me ... my own personal energy efficiency bias ... due to current technology that I am aware of ... leads me away from hydraulics for vehicle point A to point B applications ... not all applications.
Of course a specific HH could be more net efficient than a straight ICE vehicle ... or even a specific HEV ... and if it is more efficient for a given application ...
... progress is progress.... and if you want to make that improvement of 1% of 10% , whatever it is ... for your own application ...
... great ... best of luck... please post all about it
