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Old 02-09-2013, 02:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hamburg
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Gasser - '94 Honda Civic VX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian View Post
I believe the Toyota 1zz and 2zz equipped cars should be as capable for mileage as the Hondas. I almost bought a Matrix last month.
Sir, I dont think you have real world data on the toyotas. the ONLY time I've seen a toyota out perform a similar honda in fuel economy is with their far superior hybrid system. Honda's economy vtec has a low switchover indicitive of low RPM economy, no early model toyota has this. Most importantly, is the MT gear ratios toyota offers.

With a manual transmission you have to downshift for sudden acceleration, as drivers are assumed to be dumber with each generation, it is assumed we wont be able to react with: clutch in, rev match throttle blip, 1 or 2 gear downshift, clutch out, heavy throttle.
So a fairly short final drive is installed so in top gear, there is "adequate" acceleration.

With automatics, a downshift requires no drivers input other than rolling into the throttle. Therefore with modern 5, 6 , 7 and 8 speed autos, and multiple stages of lockup, the manufacturers are comfortable releasing a car with a tall final drive ratio. My wife's Venza is a good example, its a large car, with a 4 cylinder engine, yet at 65MPH its at about 2000 RPM.

This is why despite the higher weight, and parasitic drag of a fluid pump, automatics are often rated higher in highway MPG

Honda with the 84-91 CRX HF, the 92-95 civic VX and CX have very tall ratios, .694 5th, 2.954(federal emission HF) and 917 Rev per mile tire put the car at 64MPH at 2000 RPM, slower than my wifes Venza example. And if you've ever driven one of these, they are VERY different starting from a stop.

the venza numbers if your curious are .608, 4.356, 703

The accord F22B1 was an economy vtec engine commonly overlooked because the 5th generation accord was not particularly lightweight or aerodynamic, and it was not given such tall gearing, 2000 RPM 5th gear yielded 51MPH
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