View Single Post
Old 03-15-2013, 04:45 PM   #36 (permalink)
redpoint5
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,472

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - CBR600 - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - Dodge/Cummins - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)

Model Y - '24 Tesla Y LR AWD
Thanks: 4,214
Thanked 4,391 Times in 3,365 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Please don't half-quote, killing the point I make. To elaborate the obvious: Money spent in subsidies on locally produced energy gets in the local economy and is not wasted but put to good use.
I didn't intend to change the meaning of your quote when I disagreed with subsidies. Even acknowledging that subsidy money tends to stay in the local economy, I cannot rationalize the forced wealth redistribution from individuals to very specific areas of industry. Also, since we are increasingly living in a global economy, I don't see the point in isolationist practices. If I don't buy cheap oil from Arabs, someone else will and the Arabs will still gain wealth. I might as well be the one to purchase it while it's cheap and put it to work to grow my economy.

Quote:
You can only make it in the eco market by investing your own money. Subsidies are just additional.
This supports my argument that subsidies are not generally required to develop a technology and make it viable. Instead, it generally just makes specific businessmen and politicians wealthy at the expense of you and me.

Do you think the Nissan Leaf would not have been developed without the US $7500 subsidy? It likely would still have been developed, and even if it wasn't that just means it doesn't make economic sense at the moment.

Quote:
Would you forbid me to say I do not mind subsidies are being given for environmental friendly technology? On this forum?
Opinions should never be forbidden. The whole purpose of this forum is to inform and to discuss. Ideas don't get confirmed or rejected without a rational discussion about their pros and cons. It takes a diversity of minds to address problems from multiple angles and hash out ideal solutions.

A major point of disagreement is often a difference in philosophy, which is why politics and philosophy are a natural topic of discussion here. For example, the answer to the question of who owns the fruits of ones labor will shape the answer to the question of what ought to be subsidized and how much.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote