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Old 07-06-2013, 04:49 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
So how do you get more power out of a system by adding on a new system that has automatic losses of up to 30%?
When , without that system your no storage system has over 30% losses ... 30% is better than 31%... or 40% etc.

Also , not all storage systems have the 30% losses you are assuming.

Depending on the details the storage can be from 50% to 90% round trip efficiency ... For example Solar Thermal cycle efficency for storage has been demonstrated at 97%... link

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Lead is the most likely candidate for battery storage.
I'll disagree.
Lead has a poor cycle efficiency , compared to other options.
Lead has a high self discharge rate , compared to other options.
Lead has a poor life cycle count , compared to the other options.

From a utility scale point of view ... lead is one of the worst battery options.

Utility scale solar storage does not use Lead ... not one such instance that I am aware of , in the entire history of utility scale solar ... because lead is such a horribly bad candidate for that function... why trade the 97% cycle efficiency of some thermal storage systems ( see above ) for ~67% cycle efficiency of lead .... that makes no sense.

Lead's only pro is the initial $/wh ... which in some situations ... might be enough to counter all of its other cons... but in other cases ... it won't be good enough.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The only grid storage that has good potential is the one we have been using for years already. Its safe, there are no toxic metals involved and makes up over 99% of grid storage capacity already. Its called pumped hydroelectric storage. Only problem is it doesn't work every where.
And that would still be a perfectly viable example of the Option C for storage I pointed to ... that does not require the production changes or demand mandates you said were the only way... thank for agreeing with me ... even if you tried to agree by disagreeing.

Also ... Hydro storage works everywhere ... gravity is all over the planet.

It is not equally cost effective at all locations , because different locations have different design factors.

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Example of the gap that can happen between over production compared to demand... see graph bellow... They 'fixed' their over production massive waste , by exporting large amounts to others ... which would be a 4th option... to balance between production and demand ... still not requiring changes in production not mandates to load.

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Last edited by IamIan; 07-06-2013 at 05:34 PM..
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