Quote:
Originally Posted by IamIan
I don't think comparing overhaul vs new is a valid comparison.
If you want to do a complete life cycle vs complete life cycle ... or overhaul vs overhaul... OEM vs OEM ... or modified vs modified ... that would be better.
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As for the anti-HEV clean rant ...
While it might be possible ... I see the odds are very much stacked against the old having a net total cleaner operational life ... as much as the idea is often romanticized ... gets debunked ... then comes back ... like some kind of zombie.
Many parts of the industry were far worse in the past than they are today ... more energy per pound of steel in the past ... more pollution to make each pound of steel in the past ... more pollution for each kwh of energy in the past ... more steel on the older heavier vehicle ... a vehicle that is less safe to drive ... that needs some maintenance items more often ... that is less aerodynamic ... that has larger more toxic and energy costly engine ... and engine that produces vastly more toxins out of it's tail pipe per gallon ... and uses more gallons to travel the same number of miles... etc...etc.
The HEV batteries are a negative that the old option didn't have ... No argument about that at all ... but the other option has lots of other things adding to it's giant pile of life time dirty ... I just don't see a ~50lbs NiMH battery in some HEVs being a big enough hit to be able to counter all the other very large hits the other vehicle has added up over it's lifetime... especially when one tries to stretch it as far as a 7,700 lbs van vs a smaller lighter more aerodynamic , etc , etc ... that heavy aerodynamic brick of a vehicle reeks of energy waste and pollution for the vast majority of U.S. driving population ... it only has a remote chance against some other overly large and overly heavy with crappy aerodynamics horribly low efficiency vehicle.
but that's just my 2 bits.
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Ok I had to walk out to the garage and check the miles on my beater (96 Ford Aspire with a cd of .36, not a newer cars cd but certanly not a brick). My best mileage was 49 miles to the gallon and if I overhauled the engine (cost me $1200 in parts and machining) it can do better but it still runs like new. It today has 262,304.5 miles on the clock. I bought it in October of 2008 and have put on 50,000 miles on it in the almost 5 years I had it. I drove my SUV's in snowstorms or when pulling my sleds to northern Wisconsin. It has served me well after I fixed everything, new brakes twice, new shocks once, new tie rods and lower ball joints once, new wheel bearings in the beginning and two sets of tires. All cost me so far $1500. Thats it. I don't have to work at my job and contribute to pollution to pay off a $25,000 car. Or have a bank process a loan (more electrical energy) for my car. Ok here's where your argument doesn't add up to the beater.
"Many parts of the industry were far worse in the past than they are today ... more energy per pound of steel in the past ... more pollution to make each pound of steel in the past ... more pollution for each kwh of energy in the past ... more steel on the older heavier vehicle ... a vehicle that is less safe to drive ... that needs some maintenance items more often ... that is less aerodynamic ... that has larger more toxic and energy costly engine ... and engine that produces vastly more toxins out of it's tail pipe per gallon ... and uses more gallons to travel the same number of miles... etc...etc."
Say you want a Prius, that has to be built NOW, today. Mines already built, doesn't matter what the efficiancy of manufacturing was then, it's built already. For the Prius raw materials have to be processed, tooling designed and ordered, machining centers ordered and programed assembly lines fired up, cars freighted over here, cars then rail freighted to my city. Then set up by the dealer. Then (arguments with the wife on the color) then picked up, then start the payment process, more cost for insurance.
I'll probably let the Aspire go till 300,000 miles then do a rebuild (incedently I found out Isky Cams will grind a Metro XFi grind on my cam) No it isn't much to look at and I get free car washes every time it rains. Interior cleaning is easy once I open both doors and fire up the leaf blower But it still runs good and doesn't use a 1/4 qt of oil before it's time to change it.
Now the weight and safety, my car weighs 1350 lbs, does the Prius weigh that? More wieght = more waste to build, doesn't matter what MPG it gets.
As for Safety the Aspre was the first subcompact car that came standard with airbags not exactly a 76 Cutlass