[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by minispeed

So you want someone to step up and sell new cars, with new car engineering costs, to your specification, to new car buyers who don't want that product and then they can drive it and depreciate the value to the point that you are willing to pay them less for what you want and they never wanted in the first place?

They developed our tastes to suite what was most profitable for them to make, our government over the years has done many things to promote poor vehicle choices as well, including misstated and erroneous information on crash worthiness and tax and emissions exceptions on large trucks to single occupant drivers along with gas tax, supply & price manipulation being a few examples.

Originally Posted by minispeed

If you are identifying yourself as being excluded from the car buying public then don't complain that the car makers don't listen to what you want. You haven't had your "choice" removed because your "choice" has been to choose to take the left overs for cheap prices instead of being listened to.

I bought a 50mpg 2010 cobalt XFE off the lot new and am considering a volt depending on whether or not I can upgrade one of my existing EVs appropriately and of coarse the status of the "used" market or in this case the $22.5k new 2013 volt.

Currently I would like to unload my cobalt, keep the G1 insight and unload one of my antiques.

I can certainly afford to be in the car buying public but view new car purchases as rather wastefull. I usually only make those purchases on a utility VRS cost to own, the leaf/volt are one of the few situations where I might break from that attitude.

But alas, neither the volt or the leaf are really what I want, they are good cars but an EV1 like vehicle or XL1 like vehicle would be something I would be much more likely to buy on emotion and thus ignore the cost/benefit.

(realistically the volt would need to be able to carry extra cargo and payload to justify their extra size over other equally cheap to run vehicles I have. It also needs better FE and a different powerplant. Though I would guess the volts hatch and seat arrangement could be modded by me to be used for many purposes, I am sad my cobalt isn't setup like the volt with an open layout)

Originally Posted by minispeed

And they have listend to us, go buy a leaf or a tesla. They are way more efficient than any gas burning car. If you still need gas you have the volt or ford energi. They provide the product we want that will blow any of our cars, my insight included, out of the water for efficency, you just have to be willing to pay the cost it took them to develp the car.

They are slowly coming along, but much progress is still there to be made.

Also they are not necessarily cheaper to own than my 70-80mpg insight considering the up front cost. I also doubt they are more efficient than my c-car or my fathers Miles Zx40.

I always want more, only natural, sadly my only outlet would be non-production vehicles.

Originally Posted by minispeed

Your other point is better MPG is being withheld, and I said it is because of EPA rules which are a good thing. That's my point. Then you proved my point by saying it was a good thing because the EPA forced things like no points or distributers requiring regular expensive tune ups and 100,000mile spark plugs.

EPA rules are good and bad, if the rules disallow a car that gets 100mpg and forces you to get 65mpg because of NOx an exception should be made. Common sense needs to be injected into the emissions rules, right now many are just silly. The best way of reducing pollution is to burn less fuel, the volume of pollution emitted is most affected by how much you burn, not how clean it is.

That is why I would support weight based emissions requirements on cars that get beyond the normal 50mpg or whatever is reasonable. So if I make 25gr of Nox Per mile, that is my emissions, not this ridiculous percentage crap.