[Teri_TX]

Hi Visionary,

Thank you for the welcome to the club.

Sadly, I am a long way from trying out my ideas on a real vehicle. I have yet to get a motorcycle and all the other requirements such as certification and license, insurance, body gear, etc. For now I will have to rely on theory and other means such as your generous offer to try out some of my ideas.

I do agree that there is a very highly subjective "rating" system on cross wind behavior. Allert said his streamliner was good in side winds but his business partner, Theo22, said it was very sensitive and that Allert was in agreement. Theo may just be a very persuasive person and Allert changed his mind. Only they can answer that question. I intend to directly ask Allert about this in a private email.

In my opening salvo (message) I was wondering about scale model wind tunnel tests for obtaining "relative" information on various models and changes. Relative in that I was thinking of data for model to model changes, not to extrapolate to the final real thing. That would provide guidence in making a real body.

I think that the mainstream world and manufacturers aren't ready for streamlined motorcycles because of their "wierdness" and lack of macho men promoting them. Having a very cross wind stable design would of course be required. If the present day equivalents (assuming there are such persons) of Mike Hailwood or John Surtees were to endorse a streamliner, then maybe the big 4 Japanese motorcycle manufacturers would be making them. The FIM is of course a major problem. A chicken or egg first question. The Monotracer is hardly mainstream considering it's cost. If I had that much money to spend on a vehicle, I'd get a VERY nice automobile. I suppose if we had supermodels and macho celebrities cruising Rodeo Drive in Hollywood in a streamliner or the equivalent location in London, we might gain acceptance. For now, we are a distinct minority.

-- Teri

Originally Posted by visionary

Welcome to the club

Hi Teri, welcome to a very small club – people actively trying to understand the aerodynamics of full bodied motorcycles. My own research has shown there to be very little genuine high-quality study in this area and your last comment - “ I wish I had a streamliner to test the theory out on” may prove to be the only way to really know.

I doubt that there is any company or academic institution worldwide currently undertaking serious research on the fundamentals of motorcycle stability through aerodynamics. This is primarily because there are no true full-body motorcycles currently in production other than the monotracer.
Think of all the superscooters and cruisers, which sport significant portions of bodywork and the manufacturers of those products, you would think aero research would be a well-trodden path.
The reasons that it is not are many and varied, but put simply; those people most interested in the subject are blessed with the least resources. Conversely, companies blessed with adequate resources, like the big-four Japanese manufacturers seem oblivious to the opportunities for enclosed motorcycles.


I have evaluated the options (for research), just as you have, and my thoughts are: that the time and expense of building a small scale wind tunnel would not be justified as the accuracy of results are unlikely to provide clear answers. So realistically it means testing at full scale and real-world conditions, ie build one and play.

Of course this testing method is not without hazards, as explained by Roger Dunkley in his aerobike blog.
AeroBike Enclosed Motorcycle

Those brave souls who have tried this method are fewer even than the bike builders. When I recall pictures of Craig Vetter and his tuft testing, I think this represents the most scientific published information. Despite Royce Creasey’s writing and theory I have yet to see similar basic testing methods employed.

It occurs to me while writing this, that tuft testing of a superscooter (with tufts on rider and rear of machine) would advance our knowledge greatly. The ideal test would involve images taken at high degree of lean and during strong sidewinds (maybe simultaneously) as well as the more traditional straight-ahead shots.

Anyway, back to your original question about forms of separation device. I’m a few months away from my own road testing and would be happy to try some of these ideas on your behalf. However, I feel that quantifying the effect of a device is the biggest obstacle, after all the “feel” of a vehicle is a highly subjective subject.

Just like you, I hope a well-informed discussion of this topic results from your opening post.