[Teri_TX]

Originally Posted by sendler

I offered an answer and further reading to correct the other poster's misconception that the Ecomobile was somehow flying into cross winds because of it's shape. It is not. Motorcycle steering dynamics is fundamentally tied to this discussion.

You are refering to post #104 by godscountry. He acknowleged his confusion and I missed the misconception he had and replied as I thought he didn't understand my thesis of reducing lateral lift.

Originally Posted by sendler

Well I didn't really want to sit and type for hours but your hesitance to read and study other good threads has compelled me.

I HAVE READ THE THREADS YOU KEEP REFERRING TO. They are notable for the wandering undisiplined thread drift which is very confusing to the normal person trying to read them. I spent a lot of time deciphering the contradictory messages. Please start your own thread.

Originally Posted by sendler

I would link some excellent threads Aerohead has written about the rapidly diminishing returns of Kamm tails but you don't like links so let's skip it.

YOU MISQUOTED ME. I SAID TO POST A PERMALINK IF SOMETHING IS RELAVANT. and not hijack the thread.

Originally Posted by sendler

Streamlining a motorcycle turns it into a vertical airfoil which generates horizontal lift when sidewinds combine with the headwind of forward motion to create an angle of attack. This increases the force beyond what a normal bike would see.

At least we agree on something which was my original thesis in message #1.

Originally Posted by sendler

The greatest lift of an airfoil is located just behind the max thickness. So "spoiling" with a fence along the top and back section of the tail isn't going to help anything.

You are referring to the picture of Craig Vetter's fence on the tail of his streamliner in JeffM's post #52. I never suggested anything like that. Vetter said it was at the suggestion of Tom Finch 2013 Vetter Streamliner-Chap 68-redesigning Terry Hershner's-Zero in a private email. Blame him, not me. I have no idea why he made the suggestion to Vetter or his reasoning. I do not know how JeffM got the same picture Vetter privately sent me.

Originally Posted by sendler

Venting the max pressure differential from one side of the wing to the other across the engine bay or the riders lap is the easiest way to make the increased side lift of a streamliner a complete non issue.

That is one way of only minimizing lateral lift at the expense of extra drag. A crude solution which Vetter alludes is only partially effective.

Originally Posted by sendler

Top speed runs on salt flats are an extreme case where the rear tire is completely at the limit of traction and so the vehicle is essentially flying as it skips along the ground.

The HPV speed runs are done on a special smooth section of asphalt road in Nevada. Videos of them crashing from a cross wind is solely attributable to cross winds and not loss of traction from bouncing wheels. I can't really comment on the various land speed record runs on salt flats. They appear to carve a groove in the salt from the solid aluminum wheels. Calling them cars is a stretch. More like jets or rockets without large wings flying at ground level.

Originally Posted by sendler

In lieu of venting which still could be done even if the rider is fully enclosed,

So how would you do this? Still sounds like a higher drag "minimizing solution".

Originally Posted by sendler

Spoiling on either side of the nose could also reduce the side lift at a slight compromise of cd if the spoilers are carefully run along the lines of flow. They will have to be much larger than a piece of rope. More like Sheepdog's design at the early part of the thread (no photo) but two of them and moved part way around to the side of the nose.

Sheepdog in message #3 linked a picture from http://www.langleyflyingschool.com/I...l%20Strips.gif

You apparently don't understand how stall strips function. I thought the image was self explanatory. See the Wikipedia article Stall strips - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia on stall strips. The critical explanation is: "Here it acts to trip the boundary layer air flow at higher angles of attack, causing turbulent flow and air flow separation. " which is the next to last sentence in the article. Two strips are not stall strips but turbulators Turbulator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ironside's experience in message #78 with a mere single 7mm diameter rope centered on the fairing speaks for itself. His piece of rope behaves as a stall strip even though it is not the usual triangular shape section on aircraft in the Wikipedia article.