Quote:
Originally Posted by Big time
With cars becoming more complex
Would a new car designed to be run only on ethanol (E85 or E70 blends) equipped with a carburetor
Carburetor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Posted that in case younger members don't know what a carburetor is.
Suppose the car has a electronic jets in its carburetor, an oxygen sensor, secondary air injection (smog pump)
Secondary air injection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and catalytic converters if necessary
Would that pass new car emission controls as ethanol is much more clean burning?
Are there laws allowing less stringent emission tests for Ethanol-only new cars?
New cars are said to consume more oil to build than the fuel they will burn in their lifetime.
So to be truly green a new car not only needs to burn little fuel, it also must be long-lasting, easy and cheap to repair.
If so, then it looks like the 70s oil crisis was "solved" wrong
Instead of warmongering the middle East to TRY to get cheap oil then the solution was to continue with landyachts but convert them to ethanol and reforest American deserts. |
i like what youve been posting and thinking, i dont know much about the emissions from an ethanol fueled vehicle, and you might want to consider what happens when you step out the ideal A/F ratio, both rich and lean. both efi and carbs have advantages. efi can offer better mileage, precise response, and cleaner emissions just based on sensor feedback. the real problem you run into is if you try to get the engine to operate outside sensor readings, example: lean or rich O2 readings that cause the computer to act in undesirable ways. or if you try to get the entire electromechanical engine system to operate in ways outside its originally intended parameters, (different fuel, performance mods) also cost of efi is higher than carbs. efi can offer areas of flexibility that carbs cant with the ability to tune them, and the ability to change the tune on the fly.
carbs on the other hand operate purely on mechanical function. based on fluid viscosity and the path it flows through with difference in pressure you get an A/F ratio at a particular throttle setting. pretty easy if youve got a clean carb and you can read the engine performance and adjust accordingly, you can get rich lean or perfect by adjusting your jets and rods, a few springs and diaphrams, adjusting setting screws, and you have decided your fuel curve. they can somewhat adjust for altitude and temperature but not as drastically as efi. i hate to say it but alot of guys who REALLY know carbs reffer to them as toilet bowls haha its just too simple of an analogy to draw sometimes
both have their headaches if your not thoroughly familiar with what your working on. (efi vs carb, not toilets
)
from the sound of what your trying to do: a cheap easy way to get clean tailpipe emissions and a cheaper fuel (E85) its possible. if you just choose the right materials for your fuel system, the right carb, and the right vehicle you could have a good combination for not that much money that does what you want. i dont see major auto makers trying this approach, and i know for a fact engineers design for obsolescence (some of it is safety related, but alot is economical in order to sell more). their game is making money, ours is trying to save it in a clean way. perceived obsolescence is another game thats played aswell, who doesnt think about getting the nicest and newest "thing"?
i also know for a fact more energy is consumed in building vehicles than they burn in a lifetime, we were talking about this the other day in class(materials, design and manufacturing processes), its sad to me to know thats true and see cars in dealerships getting hailed on and pushed to people who cant really afford them, and flooding the auto market when most of the vehicles designed today are IMHO ugly blobs, that are designed to break, pee oil every 3k miles (by-pass oil filter anyone?), consume expensive replacement parts, and ultimately made to save as much money as possible when being built, i heard from a good source if gm or ford can save 1/60 of a cent per car based on a design mod, they are interested in making the change... so basically we get an over priced lego car that average joe cant figure out how to fix and its going to fall apart before he can pay for it..
im not completely sure if i agree with the landyacht and ethanol solution, i really like the idea we can get ethanol from renewable sources, but until we can take pretty much any sort of biomass/trash and let some super enzyme yeast effectively digest it into 20-60% ethanol, or even higher, im stuck on how we burn alot of energy to get it. maybe a solution is solar stills consuming trash? plenty of improvements to be made.
i love big cars, its really great to have room for all your junk, all your friends, having some beef to what your driving, but i also agree with reducing weight where possible to avoid burning excess fuel, even though i have 400lbs in bumpers, 500lbs in tires, and the v8 / 1ton driveline in my bronco in my mind its about strength, and offroad/onroad compromise.
so dont think im trying to rain on your parade you have a great idea, if we can just get higher yields from ethanol brewing then its more realistic.
also not trying to brag, but i think if your interested in exploring this clean burn, renewable/cheap fuel, simple, durable, easy to fix, long life vehicle option i invite you to check out my thread, those are things i absolutely believe in ive gone to alot of trouble to incorporate various ways of doing things right so they dont break later, and if they do break they are easy to fix, along with Keep It Simple Stupid, and im shooting for operating on flammable liquid wastes..