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gregsfc · 04-28-2014, 06:03 AM

I agree 100% with nicky's market analysis with respect to what consumers want in a car or in transportation in general here in the States, however, to overlook the huge, huge barrier to market with respect to emissions and safety, I think is a mistake.

With respect to Mahindra, it may have been a problem with the truck, but only as it relates to the truck being legal for sale in the U.S. I think they had done their marketing / consumer demand research, and it had that rugged, Nissan Frontier-like look that young people like and there seemed to be plenty of buzz about it, and it was going to be only a cleaner-burning, pumped-up wheels and tire version of an Indian truck already in production.

There very well could have been and probably would have been quality issues on down the road, once it entered the market, with respect to meeting the American quality standard, but I don't believe that's why it never made it to begin with. It was reported that the distributor that they had gotten lined up fell through, but I still believe that they also never could get past the point of emissions certification. It seems like that I remember reading for over a year that they were working on getting certified. They probably had an understanding of emissions compliance for diesels in North America (like Honda did when they had made an announcement that they were going to go away from hybrid power trains on larger cars and SUVs and Nissan did with respect to the Maxima and then later recanted on those decisions to offer diesels). Something happens when these car companies start getting into the the technical details of emissions compliance and light duty cars and trucks under 8500 GVWR. My guess is that the biggest hurdle is with respect to NOx. There must be something tougher than what they expect with what the regulators want, which has scared many automakers away after first committing to the idea of offering a diesel. Of course, with respect to diesels, there are other reasons not to even go there, e.g. Americans don't care or understand in general about the advantages of diesels, and the price premium for diesel fuel is a huge deterrent for many who may consider one.

And in general, I feel that the very tough regulatory standards is at least part of the reason many of the world's largest automakers stay out of the U.S. Of course it can be argued that Peugot, Renault, Tata, and others just don't think they can offer products here that we want at the price we are willing to pay at the quality level that must be met and get enough market share to make a profit, and that's the only reason they don't sell here. But I have to believe that other market barriers are in play here; chiefly the regulatory certifications barrier; and the extensive dealer network required here to satisfy consumer expectations with respect to retail sales locations and warranty work availability.

With respect to Elios, even if they've done all their homework about how to make all of this happen, I just don't see how they can accomplish everything they're going to try to do, with air bags and all of that, and come in at $6,800 MSRP in a fully-covered three wheeler, when one can't even get a decently-featured, full-size motorcycle at that price. I bought a Honda CTX700, manual shift, standard brakes, with a small fairing that I can ride only in decent weather. It has an MSRP @ $7,799, it is fairly low tech, and all the reviewers were raving about how Honda was able to bring this to market at such a low price point. The Elios would be a whole lot more utility for less, and American made to boot. If it eventually comes to market, I would guess that it would come no where near the price goal that has been set just as others have stated.

04-28-2014, 06:03 AM	#412 (permalink)
gregsfc EcoModding Apprentice Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Cookeville,TN,USA Posts: 118 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 11 Posts	I agree 100% with nicky's market analysis with respect to what consumers want in a car or in transportation in general here in the States, however, to overlook the huge, huge barrier to market with respect to emissions and safety, I think is a mistake. With respect to Mahindra, it may have been a problem with the truck, but only as it relates to the truck being legal for sale in the U.S. I think they had done their marketing / consumer demand research, and it had that rugged, Nissan Frontier-like look that young people like and there seemed to be plenty of buzz about it, and it was going to be only a cleaner-burning, pumped-up wheels and tire version of an Indian truck already in production. There very well could have been and probably would have been quality issues on down the road, once it entered the market, with respect to meeting the American quality standard, but I don't believe that's why it never made it to begin with. It was reported that the distributor that they had gotten lined up fell through, but I still believe that they also never could get past the point of emissions certification. It seems like that I remember reading for over a year that they were working on getting certified. They probably had an understanding of emissions compliance for diesels in North America (like Honda did when they had made an announcement that they were going to go away from hybrid power trains on larger cars and SUVs and Nissan did with respect to the Maxima and then later recanted on those decisions to offer diesels). Something happens when these car companies start getting into the the technical details of emissions compliance and light duty cars and trucks under 8500 GVWR. My guess is that the biggest hurdle is with respect to NOx. There must be something tougher than what they expect with what the regulators want, which has scared many automakers away after first committing to the idea of offering a diesel. Of course, with respect to diesels, there are other reasons not to even go there, e.g. Americans don't care or understand in general about the advantages of diesels, and the price premium for diesel fuel is a huge deterrent for many who may consider one. And in general, I feel that the very tough regulatory standards is at least part of the reason many of the world's largest automakers stay out of the U.S. Of course it can be argued that Peugot, Renault, Tata, and others just don't think they can offer products here that we want at the price we are willing to pay at the quality level that must be met and get enough market share to make a profit, and that's the only reason they don't sell here. But I have to believe that other market barriers are in play here; chiefly the regulatory certifications barrier; and the extensive dealer network required here to satisfy consumer expectations with respect to retail sales locations and warranty work availability. With respect to Elios, even if they've done all their homework about how to make all of this happen, I just don't see how they can accomplish everything they're going to try to do, with air bags and all of that, and come in at $6,800 MSRP in a fully-covered three wheeler, when one can't even get a decently-featured, full-size motorcycle at that price. I bought a Honda CTX700, manual shift, standard brakes, with a small fairing that I can ride only in decent weather. It has an MSRP @ $7,799, it is fairly low tech, and all the reviewers were raving about how Honda was able to bring this to market at such a low price point. The Elios would be a whole lot more utility for less, and American made to boot. If it eventually comes to market, I would guess that it would come no where near the price goal that has been set just as others have stated.