Quote:
Originally Posted by sunburnt
Any info and suggestions are appreciated.
120v, ~ 30 plates, 2 active and 28 passive for 2v operation.
1) Is DC current necessary? Use 120v AC current directly?
Why would current direction make a difference?
2) If AC no good, then a bridge rec. for pulsed DC?
So no expensive power supplies are needed.
3) How thin can plates be? Maybe heavy foil?
Why use more material than is needed to keep the plate flat?
4) Stainless plated aluminum? Maybe cheaper than all stainless.
5) Minimum ideal spacing between plates?
6) Most gen. units have 1 lower inlet and 3 upper outlet holes.
This so the gas can exit easily?
7) Best way to shake bubbles free from plates?
8) How to calculate HHO use only, liter vol. per liter of engine?
Running gas and HHO both is an overly complex setup.
9) Safe HHO storage methods? Tank types, etc.
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Hello!
I'll reply directly to your questions as best I can.
"120v, ~ 30 plates, 2 active and 28 passive for 2v operation."
This isn't right. Wall voltage is a sine wave with peaks at about 170 volts. You should aim for just over 1.5 volts per cell. I have no idea what active and passive mean in this context.
1. DC is necessary, AC will reverse the reaction every half cycle, and you get no gas evolved.
2. A bridge is acceptable. But the water is only dissociated into gasses when the charging voltage is above the equivalent "battery" voltage for the cell. That's about 1.5 volts. The AC from a wall plug is a sine wave, since excess voltage only heats the water - it doesn't make more hydrogen, there are efficiency issues with using unfiltered bridge rectified AC.
3. There is a trade off between plate stiffness and insulating spacing. If you can find a sufficiently porous insulator then the plates could be supported by the insulators.
4. For equivalent use SS is slightly cheaper than aluminum.
5. Plate spacing is mostly a mechanical issue. The plates cannot touch, and you need to have a way to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen.
6. yes.
7. Why? Gravity seems to work fine.
8. I don't understand this question. A gallon of gasoline (about 6 lbs per gallon or 2.7 kg per gallon) contains about the same energy as about 1 kg of hydrogen. If your car needs 15 gallons to travel 450 miles, it will need 15 kg of hydrogen to go 450 miles.
9. There are no economical and safe ways to transport usable quantities of hydrogen. Liquified - requires refrigeration and still wastes some hydrogen as boiling some off keeps the rest cool. And the insulated pressure vessel is expensive. High pressure tanks are limited to about 5000 psi, that allows about 30 g/l - 15 kg will take up 500 l, about 130 gallons. And a leak is a disaster. Hydrogen is unique in this regard: For all other gasses at pressure when the pressure is reduced through, say, a pin hole leak, the temperature of the gas lowers - the gas gets cold. In the case of hydrogen the leak gets hot. Hydrides, so far are experimental and generally of lower density than high pressure, but may be safer. The dozen or so
alternate hydrogen storage methods are covered by wikipedia. None are in commercial use.
You can probably generate hydrogen at home cheaper than the equivalent energy of gasoline. But storage and transportation in the car is likely to be very expensive.
-mort