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Originally Posted by Smoky
I think everyone may be misinterpreting my comments. I am not trying to start any arguments I just want to assist in finding more ways to make everyones vehicle more efficient.
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I'm just trying to help you out with forum forum etiquette here, so don't take offense. It would help without the appeals to nameless authorities to justify your arguments. If you are going to assert something, be prepared that someone will argue the point if they know it's not right. People here may be hobbyists but we take it seriously.
I know MetroMPG has bought at least one book on aerodynamics. Trebuchet works on HPVs while studying engineering (mechanical?). I'm an electrical engineer, and I've built a fuel economy simulator in my spare time that gets very good agreement with real world values. We've all spent man months in our spare time, researching fuel economy using search engines primarily. At the very least, I know I have and basjoos has, it is evident in his designs, and he has been thinking about this since the first fuel scare back in the 1970s. This particular site may be new, but we have discussed things together for over a year now.
Perhaps the difference in our approach to that of the automotive industry (which it appears you hail from) is that we expect that fuel prices will rise exponentially in our lifetime. 100%, 200%, 500%, 1000% increased real prices are not unreasonable expectations given human population growth rates.
Saving 5% in that environment is just not going to cut it.
Instead of asking the question "What can we do to make our current vehicles more efficient, given the driving styles of the average consumer?", we are asking the question "What is actually required to get from A to B with a bare minimum of fuel? Can we do that by modifying our driving behavior and vehicles? If so, how?"
The changes required are radical but effective, and not that difficult once you know how.
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I agree that aero is important. I do address frontal area in my other posts. In the auto industry we are under enormous pressure to reduce frontal area, reduce drag and weight.
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If there is enormous pressure to reduce frontal area, drag and weight, then the pressure from the marketing department to make stylistically obsolescent cars in order to generate more profit for shareholders must be mind bogglingly gargantuan - on the order of that needed to create diamonds from coal.
If there wasn't, every car would be shaped like the prius or better. The knowledge of how to make an aerodynamic car existed back in the 1920s and 1930s.
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If weight is not a factor then F1 cars would not be using expensive and exotic materials. They will spend millions to save 1 gram of wieght. You can go to any entry level race series and see how they make their cars more efficient. They take out the weight. Aero is important but they are doing pretty much what you all advocate here (and I agree with).
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F1 cars are about how to get across a distance composed of a number of curves in the shortest time possible, while staying within a set of rules. Fuel economy is about how to get from point A to point B while minimizing fuel consumption. Two very different things.
If you are trying to take lessons from competition, you would be better to focus your attention on things like the PAC-Car II, solar cars, HPVs, etc.