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slowmover · 12-11-2014, 01:16 PM

FWIW, I bought both trailer and truck in my sig for just under $30k, but expect to spend more than double that amount over time (this is my home, after all).

So lets look at a vacation for two or more people where access to a major national park is the point. Spend the time there in various activities. And a bit of other driving around for fishing.

From South Texas to Rocky Mountain National Park is 1,200-miles. If I stay two weeks at one location (paying the premium this area requires) and my daily fuel consumption is divided out by the number of days of the entire trip (or, say 2,500-miles to be conservative) as against ground rent we can come to a daily rate of fixed expenditure.

Who among us wouldn't want to spend two weeks in the Rockies during the summer? And to see the reasons our great-grandfathers chose such a spot for a national park.

I can easily carry three weeks worth of food for two as well as have enough water + propane before setting out. Call this zero daily travel expense. Quality food bought and frozen, etc. Wine, beer and spirits on sale. Like the trailer and tow vehicle it is not trip dependent. (my propane capacity for a trip like this almost isn't relevant even using the furnace nightly and cooking twice daily; an advantage of "big").

$3.25/gl diesel at Denver as of today. Same here at home.
2,000 miles at 15-mpg = 133/gls. $430.
200 miles at 9-mpg for summertime mountain traffic; $72.
300-miles of solo at 18/mpg = $54; or,
$560 at an overall trip fuel burn of 172/gls = 14.5 mpg.
21-days = 8/gls diesel/day, or, $26

At $4/g diesel, $690 or $33/day fuel cost for the trip.

At one of the RV parks closer in to RMNP: $600 for two weeks of full hookups.

$33/day for diesel, and $45/day ground rent.

$78/day over 21-days to go on vacation

Overnights en route -- sans utility hookups -- at truck stops, rest areas, WalMart or other is zero daily expense. And I still take a hot shower, cook meals and have electricity for general purposes. Stream a movie, read a book, you-name it. (This also applies to boondocking in the main).

With full utility hookups: two 15k BTU A/C, run the microwave/convection oven, dishwasher, hairdryer, espresso machine, home theater w/ surround sound, WiFi hotspot, satellite radio & television plus amateur two-way radio and clothing washer/dryer, etc. Mine really is a rolling condominium. But not a 7-mpg Class A motorhome or obese fifth wheel.

The adherents of this sort of travel call it "glamping" [glamorous]. With a separate genset I could do both. There are now hybrid solar/gensets that can keep both to a smaller footprint & weight and can run an RV most impressively. Using these other devices is a choice, not a requirement. (I don't have all the above, but could and likely will as the goal is comfort for two couples. Not all places are shirt sleeve weather and one can have the need to hunker down somewhere for an extended period).

So, $1100 to $1200 for a three week trip to cover fuel and ground rent. Short of fees for access to park amenities one can see that ground rent can be fully half or more the cost of a trip. 50-cpm in fixed expense plus food, propane and other.

Fuel cost isn't the problem given good vehicle spec at the outset. Figures above are conservative as I believe I could actually do better than this. A different trip to other locations in Colorado off season would still be about the same given the occasional need to replenish and refresh at an RV park, plus the mountain driving would cause a drop in towed mpg. Call it five days of hookups at $50/day. Or, $250 + fuel.

$1200 is a good number, IOW. Increasing mpg by a small percentage isn't going to change this trip. KamperBob does a more minimalist type of travel, and I recommend his blog, not just his advice (which is very good).

OTOH, I took up the challenge from Diesel Dave to try and see if my solo city-only mpg could be increased from 18-mpg. Over an 1100-mile test I averaged 23-mpg. That, alone, pays for around 5,000-miles of Interstate towing. Free fuel, boys & girls, if my then annual average miles savings were applied to vacation fuel costs. Just cutting annual miles by combined trips will do this without any hyper driving.

Focusing on the trailer isn't the payoff some expect it to be. A turbodiesel tow vehicle is where the money is. The right aero TT is the economical choice because it tows so well and lasts so long. Terms of independence from outside supply is the key, here, since trailer size is a negligible fuel cost given proper design, not low weight or short length.

Combine the two in a smaller package than mine (SUV or sedan + 23' TT) and fuel costs are better on average by 4-mpg -- for the trip above -- to 135/gls. Call it forty gallons ($160) or $7.50/day. A meal at McDonalds. But it may be easier to park somewhere (and at home) and has a lower utility cost overall, but at the expense of payload and water/propane capacities. Trade-offs abound. Etc.

60,000 miles is about the lifespan over ten years of a conventional plastic box RV. 25-years and 250,000 miles for an Airstream type TT . . . and then you rebuild it instead of tow it to the landfill. Run the fuel economy numbers against this time/miles framework.

An OLIVER as mentioned previously, is going to have most of the same benefits. Over 20' for a regular bed and good bath size is a minimum for extended travel in my opinion (and that of many others). I also prefer a tandem axle trailer as they pull so much better.

Make the SUV in the pic below a 3L DODGE EcoDiesel. For a new rig without the cost of an Airstream (the Oliver ain't cheap, though) long term ownership and operational costs would be near to best as could be. 20-mpg highway should be do-able given attention to lash-up details (a PRO PRIDE hitch).

Okay, Bubbas & Bubbettes, more than you want to spend. I get it. But see where the money actually goes. Don't overemphasize one aspect at the cost of others. Ain't nothing cheap to buy in vacation areas. Not to mention the time to track down inferior goods that takes away from being away. That'll kill any putative savings in fuel if more fuel and time is necessary to keep going when supplies run out.

Find out what is state of the art, now, and make good choices per your time as against being able to travel today. Five extra mpg five years from now doesn't seem so smart to me. KB's SCAMP 5'er does 15-mpg behind his small Toyo gasser pickup. It is of a size with decent capacities. And purchase price had to be low, lower than my low purchase cost I'd wager. As well, the ongoing cost of ownership on both vehicles (repairs and maintenance) will be lower as well. But not the fuel cost as it is barely $100 less for the same trip using conservative numbers. (I could re-arrange the type and number of miles to meet or beat his rig with mine as solo is higher for me). See?

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12-11-2014, 01:16 PM	#29 (permalink)
slowmover Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 2,442 2004 CTD - '04 DODGE RAM 2500 SLT Team Cummins 90 day: 19.36 mpg (US) Thanks: 1,422 Thanked 737 Times in 557 Posts	FWIW, I bought both trailer and truck in my sig for just under $30k, but expect to spend more than double that amount over time (this is my home, after all). So lets look at a vacation for two or more people where access to a major national park is the point. Spend the time there in various activities. And a bit of other driving around for fishing. From South Texas to Rocky Mountain National Park is 1,200-miles. If I stay two weeks at one location (paying the premium this area requires) and my daily fuel consumption is divided out by the number of days of the entire trip (or, say 2,500-miles to be conservative) as against ground rent we can come to a daily rate of fixed expenditure. Who among us wouldn't want to spend two weeks in the Rockies during the summer? And to see the reasons our great-grandfathers chose such a spot for a national park. I can easily carry three weeks worth of food for two as well as have enough water + propane before setting out. Call this zero daily travel expense. Quality food bought and frozen, etc. Wine, beer and spirits on sale. Like the trailer and tow vehicle it is not trip dependent. (my propane capacity for a trip like this almost isn't relevant even using the furnace nightly and cooking twice daily; an advantage of "big"). $3.25/gl diesel at Denver as of today. Same here at home. 2,000 miles at 15-mpg = 133/gls. $430. 200 miles at 9-mpg for summertime mountain traffic; $72. 300-miles of solo at 18/mpg = $54; or, $560 at an overall trip fuel burn of 172/gls = 14.5 mpg. 21-days = 8/gls diesel/day, or, $26 At $4/g diesel, $690 or $33/day fuel cost for the trip. At one of the RV parks closer in to RMNP: $600 for two weeks of full hookups. $33/day for diesel, and $45/day ground rent. $78/day over 21-days to go on vacation Overnights en route -- sans utility hookups -- at truck stops, rest areas, WalMart or other is zero daily expense. And I still take a hot shower, cook meals and have electricity for general purposes. Stream a movie, read a book, you-name it. (This also applies to boondocking in the main). With full utility hookups: two 15k BTU A/C, run the microwave/convection oven, dishwasher, hairdryer, espresso machine, home theater w/ surround sound, WiFi hotspot, satellite radio & television plus amateur two-way radio and clothing washer/dryer, etc. Mine really is a rolling condominium. But not a 7-mpg Class A motorhome or obese fifth wheel. The adherents of this sort of travel call it "glamping" [glamorous]. With a separate genset I could do both. There are now hybrid solar/gensets that can keep both to a smaller footprint & weight and can run an RV most impressively. Using these other devices is a choice, not a requirement. (I don't have all the above, but could and likely will as the goal is comfort for two couples. Not all places are shirt sleeve weather and one can have the need to hunker down somewhere for an extended period). So, $1100 to $1200 for a three week trip to cover fuel and ground rent. Short of fees for access to park amenities one can see that ground rent can be fully half or more the cost of a trip. 50-cpm in fixed expense plus food, propane and other. Fuel cost isn't the problem given good vehicle spec at the outset. Figures above are conservative as I believe I could actually do better than this. A different trip to other locations in Colorado off season would still be about the same given the occasional need to replenish and refresh at an RV park, plus the mountain driving would cause a drop in towed mpg. Call it five days of hookups at $50/day. Or, $250 + fuel. $1200 is a good number, IOW. Increasing mpg by a small percentage isn't going to change this trip. KamperBob does a more minimalist type of travel, and I recommend his blog, not just his advice (which is very good). OTOH, I took up the challenge from Diesel Dave to try and see if my solo city-only mpg could be increased from 18-mpg. Over an 1100-mile test I averaged 23-mpg. That, alone, pays for around 5,000-miles of Interstate towing. Free fuel, boys & girls, if my then annual average miles savings were applied to vacation fuel costs. Just cutting annual miles by combined trips will do this without any hyper driving. Focusing on the trailer isn't the payoff some expect it to be. A turbodiesel tow vehicle is where the money is. The right aero TT is the economical choice because it tows so well and lasts so long. Terms of independence from outside supply is the key, here, since trailer size is a negligible fuel cost given proper design, not low weight or short length. Combine the two in a smaller package than mine (SUV or sedan + 23' TT) and fuel costs are better on average by 4-mpg -- for the trip above -- to 135/gls. Call it forty gallons ($160) or $7.50/day. A meal at McDonalds. But it may be easier to park somewhere (and at home) and has a lower utility cost overall, but at the expense of payload and water/propane capacities. Trade-offs abound. Etc. 60,000 miles is about the lifespan over ten years of a conventional plastic box RV. 25-years and 250,000 miles for an Airstream type TT . . . and then you rebuild it instead of tow it to the landfill. Run the fuel economy numbers against this time/miles framework. An OLIVER as mentioned previously, is going to have most of the same benefits. Over 20' for a regular bed and good bath size is a minimum for extended travel in my opinion (and that of many others). I also prefer a tandem axle trailer as they pull so much better. Make the SUV in the pic below a 3L DODGE EcoDiesel. For a new rig without the cost of an Airstream (the Oliver ain't cheap, though) long term ownership and operational costs would be near to best as could be. 20-mpg highway should be do-able given attention to lash-up details (a PRO PRIDE hitch). Okay, Bubbas & Bubbettes, more than you want to spend. I get it. But see where the money actually goes. Don't overemphasize one aspect at the cost of others. Ain't nothing cheap to buy in vacation areas. Not to mention the time to track down inferior goods that takes away from being away. That'll kill any putative savings in fuel if more fuel and time is necessary to keep going when supplies run out. Find out what is state of the art, now, and make good choices per your time as against being able to travel today. Five extra mpg five years from now doesn't seem so smart to me. KB's SCAMP 5'er does 15-mpg behind his small Toyo gasser pickup. It is of a size with decent capacities. And purchase price had to be low, lower than my low purchase cost I'd wager. As well, the ongoing cost of ownership on both vehicles (repairs and maintenance) will be lower as well. But not the fuel cost as it is barely $100 less for the same trip using conservative numbers. (I could re-arrange the type and number of miles to meet or beat his rig with mine as solo is higher for me). See? . Last edited by slowmover; 12-11-2014 at 01:59 PM..