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Old 08-15-2008, 08:00 AM   #17 (permalink)
Mad Scientist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Detroit area, MI.
Posts: 42

Silver Civic - '97 Honda Civic 2 door DX coupe
90 day: 35.57 mpg (US)

Wagon - '01 Ford Foccs ZTX
90 day: 35.46 mpg (US)
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We wont get to the $12k electric car without going through a few generations, and energy storage must fundamentally change. EEStor may have the solution. Time will tell.

In order to get to $12k electric car using what we have today, some compromises must be made, like range OR performance, you cant have both. Most people (outside of this forum at least) are not willing to make these compromises. Wars and politics have kept oil quite cheep for a long time, and has effected the long term choices they have made.. I think that $4.00/gal is too cheap to get people to compromise. Not to be mean, but if fuel was always north of $4.00/gal , would you live 55 mil from work and have the cars you do now?

I have to disagree with you on some points, mass and power are important. Pb-A are cheap, but 50 w-hr/Kg is unacceptable and they wear out too fast. Ni-MH works quite well, 80 w-hr/Kg and super durability, but there are legal issues with a cell >15 Ah (F!@kin thanks Texaco-Ovonic) and they need a good cooling system for charging. Li-Ion dont have the legal issues, 120 w-hr/Kg is quite good, but cost is high. Even mass manufactured commercial off the shelf (18650 size laptop cells) cost come in $500/kw-hr, pretty high, considering that a nice sealed AGM deep cycle Pb-A cost $202/kw-hr.
A typical EV conversion uses 250 wh-hrs / mile. 70 mile range = (70 mi * 250 250 wh-hrs / mile ) = 17.5 kW- Hrs = (7.5 kW- Hrs*$202/kw-hr) = $3535 Pb-A pack and the battery will be dead in 300-400 deep cycles.
The Volt has a 16 kW-hr Li-Ion pack, of which 8 is usable for good durability.
pack cost for the volt? 16 kW-hr*$500/kw-hr = $8000. Even if they get a sweet deal of $400/kw-hr, the pack would cost $6400. This is why i thing that the battery must fundamentally change if your goal is $12k electric car.
What the more likely scenario is $10+/gal for fuel, making a $35K volt look cheap.
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