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Old 05-23-2017, 02:23 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Netherlands, Europe
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Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
The NEDC cycle is quite weird. Measuring the EV-mode mileage separate from the hybrid mode would lead to more accurate results.
Its designed in the 70's for underpowered carburated petrol cars driven on very empty roads, not for the current generation of highly powered cars of all kinds of fuel types driven on extremely busy roads and at high speeds. It's results are (obviously) completely not indicative of real world performance.
Really, try driving like the test method on the real road, people would be angrily assaulting you for blocking the way and driving hazardously slow.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
When it comes to biofuels, I'm very favorable to them.
I'm kinda on the fence, the biggest indicator that something is going wrong is the price of vegetable oil in supermarkets. This used to be a few cents a bottle, but is now always a few cents above the diesel price. Never mind the (il)legalities of driving on SVO or WVO, tax evasion is the most illegal form of crime here..

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
LPG might be cleaner than gasoline, but since it's also petroleum-based it doesn't sound so attractive at all from a "sustainability" standpoint.
Makes sense, the thing is, we have some pretty big refineries sitting in our port, and they literally have a 200 ft flame out the stack, burning off waste LPG/Methane. So the LPG fuel is considered a byproduct/trash anyway, driving on it is already miles better than just setting it on fire.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
[LPG] It's actually not legal for road use in my country, where CNG is used instead
Interesting. We do have CNG, but after the region of our country where NG is extracted started to experience earthquakes, NG prices have gone up and the acceptance of NG has gone way down.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
When it comes to DIY installations, gaseous fuel systems are quite complex
LPG is dead easy, and honestly, not scary. The pressure in the LPG tank is not all that much, and (at least here) all the components need to be safety-marked, so you know its all rated to take the pressure safely. CNG on the other hand is easily 20x the pressure, and personally scares me a little more, though as long as decent components are used should be safe just the same.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
I'm aware of some accidents that happened with precarious conversions not just for illegal LPG conversions but also for sub-standard CNG setups.
Most, if not all the accidents I'm aware of are either from really sub-par materials being used, or people trying to bodge an adapter to put CNG into a LPG system, which obviously (to people who know how the stuff works) is a very bad idea.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
In my country there are no actual restrictions to CNG conversions into any vehicle, as long as '97 and newer vehicles are fitted with electronically-controlled CNG hardware.
Here, LPG and CNG installs need to be checked by our national institure for measuring and checking things (TNO) to make sure they comply with safety and emissions requirements. These tests are done (at great expense) for specific parts/vehicle combinations by the manifacturers of those installations, and once tested, the same combination of parts can then be installed in those vehicles by a licenced installer. Lots of "you can't do it but we can because we paid to get a permit" going on.

There are two exceptions, but they come at a price, the price is in the form of triple-road-tax (similar taxation level as diesel cars.)

If your vehicle is from after 1/7/1990 but before ~1996, it already doesn't meet the emissions standard set for "clean LPG", yet you pay the full price of a professional installation because you're not allowed to DIY, so its completely not worth it, and post-96 cars with the installation already inside are cheaper than the installation itsself. I would know, I own one..

If your vehicle is from before 1/7/1990 you can DIY the install (as long as you have it inspected at a tech station afterwards.), however, you're still gonna pay the triple tax. Especially painful for classic car owners, the tax exemption for classic cars was recently changed to only be for petrol cars, and be full price for LPG and Diesel, because "if you use those fuels you're just driving a classic to save money and you're not a true car enthousiast, so you should pay tax like everyone else". Really nice towards the single-digit-MPG american classics, classic Mercedes'es and 4x4's. Not!
At least you can DIY the install, a decent setup is only 200-300 bucks in parts, instead of 1500-2000 installed.

Our gov't loves to tax, tax and tax some more, and yes, I love complaining about it. Its honestly one of the only but also biggest downfalls of our country, the money grabbing government who insist "saving money" means "taxing your more so we don't actually have to stop spending".
Other than the gov't taking your money its pretty good here, I guess its just better if you make at least twice what the gov't considers monthly minimum wage instead of maybe half.

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Green is the new red...
So it is. Our gov't is no exception, they love spending money on the environment, and want to take it out on those pesky working people who drive around their stupid cars just to pollute the world, they cycle to their gov't desk job, so they think everyone should too. Who even needs a car load of tools for anything?

Anyway, not to get off track, I do agree we need a new testing method for determining 'real world' (more or less) MPG first, and then putting a new target on it. As-is, a lot of cars are made just to game the system, and they often get horrible real world mileage. It's even worse if taxation or funding schemes are based on the test results, as they are here.
'97 Ford Escort 2010-2010Ü
'90 CitroŽn AX GTI 1.4 mpi 2010-2012Ü
'96 CitroŽn AX Diesel 1.5D 2012-2016Ü
'95 CitroŽn AX w/ TU5J4 1.6 16V swap 2015-2016Ü
'92 CitroŽn AX w/ TU5J4 1.6 16V swap #2 2016-
'02 Renault Mťgane wagon 1.6 16V on LPG 2016-
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