[puddleglum]

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile

Now you're talking about the difference between a 'reason' and an 'excuse'. Most of what people put down to 'cold start' penalty is more about maneuvering out of your driveway/ parking space/ waiting to turn onto the main road etc. If I reverse out of my drive, it's not unusual to see 100-200l/100km on the SG. That takes a while to average out. If I park in reverse, on a 0*C morning, I can see 5.5 within 1 km in a 2 ton van!

That's also why the Prius does so well on short trips, the EV mode eliminates the "parking maneuver" penalty. 12 miles isn't what I'd call a short trip.

For above freezing, the cold start penalty is fairly small in my experience - even smaller if you have a grill block.

I totally agree that there are techniques and mods you can use to minimize the hit, I do it all the time. 99% of my trips are shorter that than to the poster you referenced. You can control how you drive but you can't always control where you have to drive or how many stop signs or traffic density. That all has an effect. You can time lights but you have to stop at stop signs. He doesn't have a Hybrid either which isn't a fair comparison IMO.
Also, his trip is 5.85 miles I think. He said 11.7 round trip. I agree that warm weather reduces the penalty but there is still a penalty. My mileage has been much better since the weather warmed up.
All that and I've still missed re-explaining my point. What I was getting at, and I still believe to be true, is that if all other conditions are equal, a car will burn more fuel from a cold start than from a hot start. That's all. Try that 1 km drive in your van you were describing, after it's had a long run on the highway and tell me if it's not any better.