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Old 01-28-2018, 02:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
JSH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
That's reasonable from a logistics and economics of scale standpoint.
I've done some more research and read some interviews with the Civic project lead. First - the Civic, Insight, and Accord all are build on the same platform. The Insight is sized between the Civic and Accord and is closer in size to the Accord than the Civic. This makes sense as the Accord is now a large car due to constant growth every time is is redesigned. Second - Honda is still smarting from the failure of the 9th generation Civic. It was not well received and sold poorly. I was refreshed after 1 year, and now replaced after 5 years. Honda has decided to return to their roots and focus on sportiness and performance for the 10th generation Civic. Hybrids do not fit that image.

So then we have the Insight. Larger than the Civic, smaller than the Accord. Priced well above the base Civic with a more upscale interior but cheaper and smaller than the Accord Hybrid. It is focusing on ride comfort and space in the form of a mid-size sedan while not being as huge as the Accord.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
CAFE standards seem to be more politically-oriented than technically-oriented.
What they are set at may be political but the results have a huge effect on product mix and design. The switch from one CAFE standard for all OEMs to sell-adjusting standards for each OEM based on product mix is huge. It means that OEMs do not have to sell small vehicles to offset large ones. It also means that OEMs have an incentive to make vehicles larger.

Take for example the produce changes at Fiat Chrysler. Chrysler has returned to profitability and paid off their debt by abandoning cars almost completely. If you look at their product portfolio the only cars left are the 300, Challenger, and Charger. The 300 will be dropped in 2020 without a replacement. Chrysler's CEO has recently stated that the plan going forward is to focus on greatly expanding the sale of Jeeps. None of this would have been possible under the old CAFE system with a one-size-fits-all CAFE target.

The CAFE change also killed the compact truck and ensures that it won't return.

My point in the early comment is that Honda no longer needs a small Fit-sized vehicle. In fact making the Insight larger makes meeting CAFE standards easier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Even though it could not have the same appeal toward those who get into hybrids as a form of virtue-signalling, it would make more sense to simply offer a hybrid variant for the most popular models instead of blowing money on a low-volume "halo" hybrid
Honda has the Clarity PHEV for people that want virtue-signalling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Look at its side profile: even if the overall dimensions are not changed, don't you agree that a hatchback would be way more practical than that small trunk lid?
Hatchbacks are difficult in 4 door sedans. If you make it a hatch you need a crossmember in the roof just in front of the hatch. That is where the passenger's head goes. To fix this you lower the rear seat height and shift it forward. That is what Honda did with the Civic Hatch but it leads to a cramped rear seat. The Honda sedan, coupe, and hatch all have the same wheelbase and front seat legroom. (106.3 and 42.3 inches) However, the hatch loses an inch of legroom in the rear and has lower fuel economy due to the extra weight required for the hatch.

These changes aren't possible for the Insight. Reducing rear seat legroom is contrary to the mission statement of being a comfortable sedan for 4 people. Honda can't lower the seat because the hybrid battery is under there. Combined with the fact that hatchbacks are poor sellers in the USA and you get a conventional sedan.

Personally I think the design calls for a wagon version. My Prius is much less useful than the 2003 Jetta Wagon it replaced due sharply sloped hatch.
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