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Old 08-30-2018, 03:16 PM   #2627 (permalink)
RustyLugNut
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Your point being . . . ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Even in France, they are phasing out nuclear power plants.
We all get you don't like nuclear power and are among the fearful masses who would rather not deal with anything nuclear.

France has quite a handful of older 40+ year old plants that are nearing the end of their useful life. So what? That doesn't mean the plants were a failure. All over the California wind corridors are wind farms from the 70s onward that failed economically and their builders have left them to rot. Who is to clean them up? Its a problem that needs to be worked through. According to an article from Popular Science that references studies I'm not sure about, many wind and solar projects never return the energy that was invested in their production and installation/maintenance. A later article from the same magazine said that 2010 was a turning point for both solar and wind as both technologies are efficient enough and produced with less material and energy input to come out ahead in energy production over their lifetimes. Again, I'm unsure what studies they are referencing. As wind and solar multiply, we need to look at not just the production, but also the end of life recycling. Aerohead references clean production here in America. But a large bulk of the solar cells are produced in China. I've seen their factories. I've seen the pollution. Don't tell me solar cell production is clean until you also can deal with foreign production issues. Recycling? The majority of electronic wastes get shipped off to places along the Pacific Rim for hand sorting and crude metal material separation. Want to know how they separate these metals in Bangladesh? They are burned in an open oven to clean the metals from insulation and circuit boards. As renewables like solar and wind become more common and ubiquitous, we must also plan their demise and recycling. Proper recycling. That costs. Will that cost be carried by the consumers or by some poor government officials a generation from now?

https://www.instituteforenergyresear...mental-crisis/

Just an article that touches on some of the issues.

I can't find the article from A UC Berkeley Professor who teaches nuclear physics and engineering and who is not a proponent of nuclear power. He had a question and answer session on Quora where he cautions supporters of renewables to think out the logistics when you need a massive replacement of the 17 TerraWatts or so of power our modern world now uses. He estimated a square 331 miles on a side, with current tech solar panels, residing in the Sahara would meet the needs of the worlds 17 TW power consumption. You would actually need more of course because not all solar panels will be in such an ideal spot geographically, but it points out the gargantuan scale of renewables. Much the same for wind, though wind, like hydro-power and geo-power are more site constrained. He cautions us to include disposal planning for large numbers of panels, turbines and hydro-power projects. These things don't last forever. And, by their sheer number and bulk, they will dwarf the recycling problems already found with computers, phones, battery tools and other consumer items.
 
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