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Old 10-03-2018, 07:52 AM   #3067 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
the ipcc announcement about overestimating the effects of CO2
I put this into the search box and got

Of course, that is powered by Google, not the MySpace of search engines. Mr. freebeard doesn't use Google or Bing. Have you actually quoted it directly, linked it, or told us to find it?

I put "Oil Pan Bing" in the search box and received five results in other threads.

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
What if this is what the artic has always done?
What if it isn't?

We have quoted scientists that say that Gore exaggerates the facts, but there is still a problem. You keep saying "I for one welcome our new fiery overlords."

I keep responding that Arizona does not need any additional heat!

Anyway, as I mentioned there is a bill to mandate more renewable energy. I had not realized that it would be a constitutional amendment, which means that if it did not work it would require another constitutional amendment to fix. Proponents keep saying that it will reduce electrical rates "And that is why [a major power company] opposes it."

Wait, they want Arizonans to pay more?

I keep saying that if Armored Personnel Carrier (maybe I have that acronym wrong) is required to install more solar they will make sure that they make a profit off of it.

Well, I finally read how much we are supposed to save--$4 a month between 2030 and 2050:

The first time that I tried to read that article it complained that I was using an ad blocker. I deleted those elements and was able to read the article, but not scroll, so I copied and pasted into Word and fixed the formatting because that was important.

Now when I try to read it I hit a paywall, but when I put that quote into Google it showed that article.

Proposition 127 also talks about how bad the air quality is in Arizona.

We have five coal power plants: Cochise, Joseph City, Saint John's, Page, and Springerville. If you are not from Arizona you may not have heard of any of those. You may not have heard of those towns if you live in Arizona. When I looked up Springerville I saw that the power station was fifteen miles from the town of perhaps two thousand people, which is 177 miles from Flagstaff, the thirteenth-largest city in Arizona, with 66,000 people in 2010.

Google says that is 150 miles in a straight line. Even if the wind blew directly from Springerville to Flagstaff, how much would dissipate over 150 miles?

How much do coal power plants contribute to metropolitan air quality?

A majority (64.3 percent) of the carbon monoxide in the Valley’s air comes from cars and trucks.
About a third (32.9 percent) of the particulate matter in the air comes from automobiles.
Most particulates (43 percent) come from construction-related activity, while 22.6 percent comes from agriculture and vacant lots.
A small portion (1.5 percent) comes from point sources like power plants.

Let's say that 50% of people could live with an electric car as their next vehicle without excessive inconvenience. You have 50% less vehicular pollution (depending on which ones are replaced and where they go), but then power plants pollute more?

Hovering over the graph, it says:
All Electric: 4,190 pounds of CO2 equivalent.
Plug-in Hybrid: 5,942 pounds of CO2 equivalent.
Hybrid: 6,258 pounds of CO2 equivalent.
Gasoline: 11,435 pounds of CO2 equivalent.

Wait. What is the average fuel economy of each of those categories? Gasoline includes my 44 MPG HX with low compression, Suburbans, and everything in between. I tried to look up "average fuel economy of non-hybrid cars" and did not receive any valid responses.

U.S. vehicle fuel economy rises to record 24.7 mpg: EPA

I wanted numbers for all hybrids sold in 2017, but only got December. These are the numbers for the top 97.78% of hybrids sold that month. The remaining twelve sold less than 1% each:

I estimated that the hybrids averaged 42.7 MPG. I know that fuel economy and emissions are not 100% directly related, but I cannot do any of this exactly. Hybrids bring up the average fuel economy, but only accounted for 2% of US auto sales in 2016.

On average hybrids get 72.8% better fuel economy and the average gas vehicle emits 52% more than hybrids. However, what kind of comparison is this? The 2018 Highlander hybrid weighs around 4,630 pounds, depending on the configuration. The Prius c weighs 2,530 pounds. I do not know how to find out how much of each vehicle was sold in 2017, but the ten most popular vehicles were:

I am not sure that the Highlander is the heaviest hybrid, but the average weight of the twenty most popular vehicles in 2017 was 4,710 pounds, so while hybrid vehicles are more efficient than comparable gas-powered ones, they are also generally smaller.

What is the ROI of a hybrid for the average consumer again?

Did Honda kill the Civic Hybrid?

Convincing people to choose a hybrid for their next car would drastically reduce pollution, but so would convincing them to choose the vehicle that fits their needs most of the time. says that electric cars contribute 33% less to emissions. Sure, it would be better for the health of millions of people to separate them from their emissions, but I am not sure that is the answer.

If you can charge at work you could charge your car with solar, but if you work during the day and charge at night, how would they power it? Have the power company invest in batteries so their batteries could charge yours?
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