[cajunfj40]

Y'all are all being really helpful, I want to stress that up front, ahead of the following wall-o-text reply.

Trouble is, y'all took the wrong chunk of my post to run ahead with. Sorry I wasn't more clear!

I *AM* ditching the current 2nd Gen M5OD-equipped Ford Explorer. I already know it *cannot* do the job. The only way it could possibly do the job would be if I found a hypothetical (Thanks Fat Charlie) sub-1800lb GVWR pop-up that filled all the needs I threw at the laundry list. Even then it would be marginal.

Now for a few specific replies.

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

You can pick your tow car based on your camper or pick your camper based on your tow car... and you're already committed to the tow car. So you're asking too much from your hypothetical camper: tiny (lightweight) but with an enclosed bathroom that isn't stacked inside its shower?

I'm not committed to a tow car - I am looking for a better one. Yes, I am asking a lot of a popup. That ask was more in the "Did I miss anything in the extremely-light popup market that *might* let me use a lower-payload/tow rating vehicle?" Thanks for the layout of your current camper, too - that could work easily for our sleeping arrangements, and it is one of the fallbacks for a lower-investment plan where we pretty much rely on campground bathhouses.

Originally Posted by IsaacCarlson

An Explorer is not the best tow vehicle. They are quite sloppy on the road and are top heavy. I would suggest new shocks/sway bar links/bushings if they are older. Good brakes are a must. The transmission is not a strong point, being an R1 series.

I agree, my current 2nd Gen Explorer is not the best tow rig, see comment above about ditching it. If I do tow anything with it, it'll be a tiny popup. As for upgrading tow ratings, I disagree. No matter what I do I cannot change the GVWR and GAWR ratings printed on the sticker on the vehicle at the factory. I can increase the *physical* capacities of the vehicle, but not the *rated* capacities. Note the "I" there - I'm a bit of a stickler for the rules-as-written, though I don't intend to run right up at the limits without upgrades in any event. My comment about an up-fitter is that I'm pretty certain that they are the only places other than the OEM manufacturer that have the "authority" to change the nameplate GVWR/GAWR, etc. on a given vehicle. Typically they don't - they start with a chassis/axles that have the needed ratings - but there are those "floater" trucks that have double frames, etc. In effect, they actually become the manufacturer of record for the modified vehicle. At least, that is how I understand it. They certainly charge enough.

Originally Posted by slowmover

The latest Explorer is light years away from its predecessors. And would make an excellent tow vehicle if set up for street performance. The police-spec models are quite capable.

Trailer weight isn’t ever the burden. It’s trailer shape which matters. A fully aero travel trailer can handle the REAL problem of highway travel and that is adverse winds. Tow rigs are involved in loss-of-control accidents due to natural or man-made sudden gusts, AND the driver incorrectly dialing in too much steering. It all happens and is over in 2-3 seconds.

1). Step One

With driver only and gear kept permanently aboard (till the day it’s sold) Scale the vehiccke after topping off the fuel tank at a travel center. (CAT SCALE phone app). Go inside to the fuel desk for the paper copy.

Against the door sticker showing AXLE/WHEEL/TIRE limits, note the range remaining. (Post it)

From this info is how one sets a weight distribution hitch.

Example: a 800-lb trailer tongue weight will — after correct distribution — be relected on a scale reading as approximately under 300-lbs to the front axle; a little over 300-lbs to the rear axle and 200+/lbs to the trailer axles.

But, no, despite acres of ignorance this IS NOT about “Payload”. Load the vehicle as you will with 800-lbs and the scale will show the bulk of it o the rear axle. The only legal limits are the tire/wheel/axle Load limits. .

The “best” tow vehicles have a VERY short rear axle to hitch ball distance. As well, fully independent suspension and low center of gravity. All of which describes the current Explorer.

Agreed that the older ones were terrible in every role above 35-mph. Dump it for something worth using.

The current ones have more than enough power to pull a truly aero trailer up to 23’ or so without issues.

A pickup is nothing but a high risk vehicle.

I definitely agree that the 4th Gen (through 2010 - 2011+ went CUV and lost low range) is a way better tow vehicle than the 2nd Gen I have right now. See above, I am dumping the 2nd Gen. It'll just take a while. No towing a fancy trailer until that rig is replaced with something far better suited.

The rest of your notes are very helpful. This is the sort of thing that I have run across after digging past the really wrong stuff I found before, and is generally how I intend to proceed. The RV dealer I went to was the one that said "a weight distributing hitch makes the tongue weight disappear" and "the tow rating is the tow rating, that's all you need to know". I disagreed, so I left with some brochures to do more research.

The GAWR limits are the mechanical limits of those two parts of the rig, never to be exceeded, yes. I agree completely that I need to make sure the vehicle and trailer are loaded correctly and the weight-distributing hitch is adjusted properly so as to not exceed any individual GAWR, as you described. I also can't put weeny tires on it with lower load ratings than the axles they are on and expect to load past the tire rating. Your description of how to get the actual as-it-sits curb weight/distribution are spot on.

The GVWR, however, is also something I wish to not exceed. That's where "payload" comes in. I'm not using the nameplate payload, I'm using the "weigh the truck, subtract that from the GVWR" payload. Every pound of armor, heavier tires, larger swaybars, upgraded tow hitch, etc. counts against that "payload" number. Your example of an 800lb tongue weight being re-distributed to about 600 vehicle/200 trailer still leaves me with 600lbs that counts against the GVWR/payload. If I have only 1200lb between the curb weight of the vehicle as-it-sits and the GVWR on it, ie a 1200lb "payload", and I hook up that theoretical trailer distributed as noted, and then my 700lb family sits in the vehicle, I go above GVWR. Someone has to stay home, or I need to cut weight, or I need a different tow vehicle or I need a lighter trailer. The axles may well be within GAWR limits, and the tires will be rated as high or higher than the axles, but virtually every door jamb sticker/factory rating chart I have looked at has shown a gap between the sum of the posted GAWR's and the posted GVWR, with the GVWR being the lower number.

Again, note the use of "I" here - I want to make sure *all* the numbers are correct. I don't want anything an insurance adjuster or cop can hang anything on to shove at me after an accident that will already have been bad. (Not that I plan to be in one, just that whole "plan for the worst" part of how I think.) I don't know what the legal force is behind the GVWR sticker on the vehicle beyond how the vehicle is classified for registration, etc., but it is a convenient number for someone to look at and say "you went above that, denied/you are at fault." so I plan to stay under it. If it's conservative, oh well, I bought a more capable tow rig/a lighter trailer so I end up using even less of the vehicle's capabilities.

I'm also not going to do some sort of weird weight distributing setup that gets me within all three axle limits, but has the thing so trailer-heavy it's a deathtrap. (Hey, the trailer has a 5000lb axle, and if I load everything towards the back, it'll actually pull 500lbs of load off the rear axle, and the weight-distributing hitch makes it look all flat and nice! )

I want a safe, easy to drive setup. I don't want a pickup that I have to intentionally load with dead-weight to keep it from spinning out on my daily commute in the winter.

Your notes on trailer aero are also very good. I'll look at some of the Airstreams or similar - I already knew "sail area" was something I should pay attention to, as well as frontal area. What's your opinion on the hard-side TravelManor type popup rigs? Not tall, still relatively wide, not very long, but quite square.

Originally Posted by slowmover

You’re seriously mistaken about insurance, hitch capability, etc. Or Payload, tow capacity, etc.

That you even THINK a 4WD offroad Exploder makes a suitable highway vehicle is depressing as hell.

With the right trailer a Honda Odyssey is a good choice.

Solo family duty precedes ALL OTHER SPEC

I get it, you don't want me to get myself and my family in trouble out on the freeway. That's my goal, too, and why I am asking here for more input. I learned enough in my own research to know that my current 2nd Gen Explorer is not suitable for the task - and that even a min/maxed put-together one would be marginal at best, ratings-wise. Since min/maxing one requires a different truck to start with, the hassle involved is not worth it, so I am looking for more suitable vehicles to start with that I can also go have fun off-road with.

I do not plan to lift this thing to the moon, and per me and my metro's point about wiggly tread, I'm planning on sticking with relatively mild tread patterns. I already know mud tires suck in rain and in the usual winter conditions that apply here in MN. No auto-locking or clutch-based LSD's for similar poor winter handling characteristics. Stick with 70-75 aspect ratio tires for a reasonable ride/handling/load carrying/off-road sidewall flex compromise. Avoiding wide tires because they do bad things when hitting the slush between lanes in the winter. Mostly I want to add armor and traction. My "gold standard" for off-road capability was a nearly bone stock 1979 FJ-40. Absolutely crap handling, safety, etc. but that was back when I was a teenager/20-something who hadn't done as much research as I have now and didn't have a family to protect/provide for. I know it'll take me a while to get good at driving off-road again, so my first add-ons will be skidplates and the like, so mistakes are less costly. Bigger tires cost a ton, too, and for a part-time toy it isn't worth the added wear and expense when I'm not off-road to run them. I am trying to be reasonable about this, but I'm fighting my younger self, so I need to throw data at him to get him to understand. A lift would only happen if I had to take the suspension apart to replace wear items, and I'm only interested in 1 to 2", and then only if it doesn't run the thing against the bumpstops/ruin the ride/make the alignment all wonky. No huge bracket-drop lifts, springovers, rear blocks, etc. So long as the lower point of the solid rear axle (if equipped) is equal to or higher than a stock FJ40 on 31" tires, that's all I "need". IRS vehicles already beat that, so it's more a matter of tougher tires (puncture resistance) with better than straight highway tread.

My comments on insurance, etc. are me trying to boil down the cacophony of info I've run across into something relatively simple. This is primarily to explain to those who want to tell me "Ah, you have a Class IV hitch, you can tow 7500lbs, 10,000 with a weight-distributing setup, you're good to go!" that I'm up against a recognizable "bad guy" in the form of a potential ticket or denied insurance claim, so please to be showing me the lighter trailers kthnks. Cuts the arguments in the store shorter, because they want to sell me the biggest thing on the lot - and that usually means they look at the "dry weight" and compare it to my "tow rating" and say I'm good to go, all other numbers be damned.

If you wouldn't mind explaining in more detail, I'm willing to read it. You tend to lay stuff out in an understandable, straightforward fashion - even when you're exasperated at the noob who looks like he's gonna get himself and his family killed.

I actually have looked at minivans. We'll be replacing my wife's 2007 Mazda 5 in a few years, and if we want to go camping somewhere that isn't an off-road adventure area, her replacement vehicle might be a better tow rig for that kind of trip. So I'll be doing this same sort of exercise with fewer limitations on the vehicle list since I won't need 4x4, low range, ground clearance, etc.