[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

You didn't move to someplace with more reasonable housing costs. People used to move to opportunity - not so much anymore. Go West young man (or in this case too many people went West to your town so it may be time to go back East)

If push comes to shove, I've thought about going to several areas away from here and applying for both a job and rent. The place that gets back to me with the best deal wins.

I just don't know what areas to look at.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Lots of factors. Corrupt politics usually is to blame for housing shortages with restrictive zoning laws, or disincentives to build such as "rent control".

Ironically, the ones who are moving out are workers. This town used to be booming with construction workers, for an example. Now people have to hire companies from hundreds of miles away to come in and do the work. And those comapanies have to put their workers in campers because the hotels are full of people who's rent skyrocketed and don't want to leave the area.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Those seasonal workers that get much more work during some periods will be making crazy overtime when it's busy. Most will spend every penny they make immediately, and then suffer during the lean times. Unfortunately that's the consequence of not being good at controlling consumer behavior. I lucked out in that my spending habits would not change regardless of getting paid weekly, or once a year in a lump sum. In fact, I only ever look at my income, expenses, and balance once a year when I do taxes. No budget required when you live well below your means.

I lived in my car for 2 years when I was young, which gave me a big headstart on accumulating a downpayment on my first house, which I purchased and then rented out 3 of the rooms. I did this on a $17/hr wage. At the very end of my last job, I was making $25/hr. I had saved so well that I paid cash when I got married, paid off my wife's debt (student loans and CC), put her through a medical program paying in cash, and bought another house.

When I was young, I made $3 an hour at one of my first jobs and $5.25 at the next. Nearly double!

When I moved here and worked in construction everyone including myself did it as self employed. There are no big companies here and people don't get paid 1.5 times for overtime. Even now I'm still self employed because until recently being employed capped you at about $20 an hour (knowing people who had 20 or even 30 years at their jobs).

Sometimes I'd end up with construction jobs that were easy and I could get a quick check. Others would turn into nightmares and I'd have to work way more than 8 hours a day for two or three months with no income until the job was done, even during the busy times. But although we made it work back then by living below our means, I do find it so much easier for me to support my family with a steady paycheck.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Those that spent every penny they had when they were young are at a disadvantage when they finally begin to raise a family. Those that amassed a large amount of college debt and earned a worthless degree area also at a huge disadvantage.

I'm just glad we never got into debt. Most young people nowadays start out with their neck 10ft under debt. They do this in three phases. Number one, college debt.

Second, marriage. Not only are people spending a lot on extravagant weddings, but when then they get married and everything becomes an excuse that "my spouose needs this." They "need" a big house, the "need" a new car and "need" to eat out at least once or twice a week. And everything goes on a credit card. This is diffent than when they were single and could live in a closet with no car and eat canned beans for every meal.

Then they have kids and everything becomes an excuse that "the kids need it." The thing that killed on friend of mine financially was trying to pay for health insurance for all his family. Health insurance here is extremely expensive. He just never sat down and did the math. We're talking $1,500 per month with a nearly $20,000 deductible. He'd have to have an accident that's over $38,000 before the insurance started helping. With no health issues, he's now deep in debt for trying to have insurance for his wife and kido even though they have no health issues or preexisting conditions.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

$25/hr is an excellent wage, especially for someone without a degree. It's not an extravagant amount to raise a family on a single wage, but doable.

As an aside, my dad as the only income in the family never made more than $35k in a year working at Safeway. That was about 15 years ago. I had an excellent childhood despite a relatively lean upbringing. He never got food stamps despite qualifying for them. Back in the day, there was a certain amount of pride in being self-sufficient to the degree possible. What little of that value that existed then has long since eroded away. We see corporate fat cats getting bailed out and then give up trying to live honorably.

What I wish I knew is if I could make $15, $20, $25 or more in a place with more affordable housing. It allways seems that wages and housing go together. What I do for work may get me just $10 an hour somewhere else. So even if the housing is half the price it is here, the wages could be even less.

Doing some math, because my Dad never made much money either. The $7 an hour he made back in 1990 is about $15 an hour when adjusted for inflation. (Single income. Mom did not work) But the house mortgage he got at that time was $175 per month, or just under $400 per month when ajusted for inflation.

Where can I make $15 an hour and have a mortgage for $400?