[redpoint5]

Here's my response to someone on another forum yesterday.

“Unless we really do it [drastic CO2 reduction] immediately, it will not be possible to limit warming to 1.5 degrees."

That does not sound doomsday to you? I know you believe in climate change, the problem is you don't think it is a problem.

If I listened to a nuclear proliferation expert say that if we don't urgently intervene in Iran's uranium enrichment program, they will have a nuclear warhead in a decade, do I interpret that to be a doomsday observation?

If I listen to an expert epidemiologist say that infection is a more urgent matter than nuclear proliferation, do I believe them?

If I listen to an expert in artificial intelligence say that AI is the biggest threat to humanity, do I believe them?

If I listen to an expert in marine biology explain how dwindling fish populations is the biggest problem humanity faces, do I believe them?

If I listen to an astronomer explain that solar flares are the biggest threat to humanity, do I believe them?

What you're not understanding is that every expert makes their area of expertise into the most important topic, because they have to. Just because I'm not constantly running around with my hair on fire because humanity faces a near infinite number of threats doesn't mean I don't believe in the problems.

Rather, I think that reflects more on others susceptibility to be manipulated into believing any particular thing is the biggest problem. I don't begrudge people for their perception of what threats are most concerning to them. Just don't impose it on me. I'm not required to worry at any particular level about any particular threat.

We're not going to achieve any arbitrarily chosen level of drastic CO2 reduction globally in the next decade. Lots of solvable problems are still on the list though. We could probably do something meaningful about global starvation, for instance. There's a good argument to be made for massive investments from governments around the world to develop next-gen nuclear power generation. If we solve the cheap, abundant, and low polluting energy production problem, that positively impacts basically everything on the list of problems.

Originally Posted by aerohead

I'll disagree with everything he says.

Peterson starts out by saying global temperature seems to be rising and that humans have some responsibility for that. You disagree with that?

* He's treating increased 'biomass' within a context which does nor represent what's actually taking place.
* It doesn't provide long-term carbon sequestration that we'd benefit by.
* He's excited about 'weeds' increasing by 15%, while ignoring the human bonfire larger than the entire planet, oceans and all.
* Food production is falling:
1) it doesn't matter how much CO2 'fertilizer' you give a plant, when it's so hot that photosynthesis ceases, and the plant's leaves stomata close off to retain moisture, ending growth.

You acknowledge increased growth in one breath, and then proceed to talk about decreased growth. Which is it? Somehow only weeds will grow better, but absolutely everything we value will suffer? What is the scientific explanation for only plants valued by humans suffering, but all other plants thriving? I haven't read that study yet.

3) The oceanic food chain is collapsing.

Overfishing is not attributable to global warming.

4) Food trees, which rely on a certain temperature regime, cannot 'un-plant' themselves, and move northwards, or to higher elevations to escape rising temperatures.

We're not talking about an eviction notice requiring trees to vacate next month, we're talking about gradual temperature increase over hundreds of years. Trees can respond over hundreds of years.

Besides all that, we're not hunter/gatherers, we're agrarians. We put the food plants where we want them immediately.

6) Crops are of no use if the overheated people who harvest them die of renal failure in the fields, because they can't drink enough water to protect their kidneys.

I haven't seen that dystopian sci-fi yet. Doesn't sound like an interesting plot-line by itself.