Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5
The same mistake you make with regards to weeds vs crops is leading you to incorrect conclusions here, too.
That mistake is assuming everything Gaia provides is in perfect quantity, and that any alteration of that by 1 species (us) must be a change for the worse.
You believe (correct me if I'm wrong) plantlife will proliferate with increasing CO2, but only "weeds", as vegetation valued by humanity will diminish.
Now here (correct me if I'm wrong), you're assuming any amount of CO2 nature emits is the perfect amount, but any amount humans emit disrupts the perfect amount Gaia has provided for her world.
I just don't think many people have such faith in the perfect Gaia religion.
40,000 people escape abject poverty every day, so the evidence is contrary to your notion that things are getting worse. Preventing people from starvation is easy, because all you have to do is give them food. That's a lot easier to do than turning down the outdoor thermostat.
Where am I advocating for an intrusion by government into the free market?
My default is liberty, but that doesn't mean I oppose all authority. It means that when there is sufficient doubt as to whether we're better off imposing on liberty or not, then don't. It's similar to my default in criminal law, that people are innocent until proven guilty.
Do you have a reference for a global decline in tree growth?
Do you have a reference for a global decline in commercial plants?
For the sake of argument, we accept that premise. Is it easier to solve the problem of declining fishery production by lowering the outdoor thermostat, or directly improving the habitats in which these fisheries operate?
Ah yeah, I should just talk to one of my many friends who are extinction botanists.
That's why Gaia gave us our big brains, so we don't go planting things in stupid places.
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1) according to my information I've made no mistake, and my conclusions would constitute cognitive continuity. Your welcome to provide scientific countervailing evidence.
2) you'd be challenged to find any evidence where I've EVER, and at ANYTIME made such an unscientific characterization as ' perfect' in association to 'nature.'
3) I'll take your wording associating me to anything to Gaia as an ad hominem attack, which is banned at EcoModder. Stop it! Right here and now!
4) Anthropogenic greenhouse gases reducing global food production is a scientific fact, for which I'll provide specific bona fides elsewhere.
5) No where have I ever claimed that 'plantlife' (sic) will 'proliferate with increasing carbon dioxide.'
6) Global warming and it's attendant climate change, associated with anthropogenic greenhouse gases, as a fact, is introducing invasive 'weeds' to commercial farming operations, as 'warmer' conditions now allow species to thrive in locals where, formerly, it was 'too cool' for them to survive. The emergence of these new, unwanted plants add an additional burden and cost to the farmer, whom now must deal with a problem they never had before climate effects started to arrive in their 'backyard.' ( this isn't rocket science )
7) 'Commercially-produced' agricultural products are already in decline, globally, because of man. I'll provide the scientific bona fides elsewhere.
8)I don't know anything about a 'perfect Gaia religion,' and if you think you can associate me with it I'll do everything in my power to get you thrown off of EcoModder. Knock it off ! Or suffer the consequences.
9) I'm uncertain how to incorporate the notion of 'abject poverty' into a discussion of climate change.' Something like the 13,000,000 American citizens who are food-insecure right now would be germane. Un-insured Americans who've lost everything they owned to hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, dam bursts, flooding, mud-slides, tropical disease, heatwaves, 'heat-stretches', drowned livestock, crop failure, asthma, glacier extinction, saltwater intrusion, shellfish poisoning, malnutrition, etc.. Between 2011 and 2018, more than 100,000 USA farms were lost. By 2018 there was $ 416-billion in USA farm debt. 50% of USA farmers had lost money every year since 2013. In 2019, 29,687-square miles of cropland was never planted due to flooding. In 2022, America farmers were killing their own crops and selling off the livestock in response to extreme drought. 37% of field crops were plowed under. Farmers committing suicide at an alarming rate.
Production is declining, food is becoming less nutritious, and some food will literally become poisonous in the near future, with a world population heading north of 9,000,000,000, the arithmetic is pretty simple. There will starvation on a scale which is unimaginable. Malthusian. It's baked into climate change.
11) I DO have scientific evidence for declining global tree growth, from the very plant physiologists whom conducted the research.
12) I DO have scientific evidence for a global decline in commercial food production, from those who are watching it unfold as I type.
13) Asking for 'Big Government' to do 'ANYTHING' about advancing Nuclear Fusion power is 'socialist,' and a direct violation of Adam Smith's 'free hand of capitalism.' Very anti-libertarian.
14) As to the world's fisheries, unless one understands the marine food chain, there's no way to a solution. Those who understand the marine food chain already know that we're doomed. There isn't going to be any 'habitat' for marine organisms. And it begins with both polar ice caps, ocean warming, and ocean acidification. A flue stack and tailpipe issue, and all the infrastructure which supports it.
15) Those who plant things have found that it wasn't the wrong plant they planted, it was the place they planted it. While we 'slept' the place changed. And it's changing at a pace never seen in the knowable history of Earth.
Hence the existential threat.