View Single Post
Old 10-30-2023, 12:19 PM   #37 (permalink)
aerohead
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,267
Thanks: 24,392
Thanked 7,360 Times in 4,760 Posts
'EBLA etc.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobLeSann View Post
Thank you aerohead, good stuff. I’m surprised that the cobalt went with an EBLA less than 12. I suppose it’s just a rule of thumb. Overlaying a streamlining template could make sense, really

I think the next logical step of testing is building a pressure-measuring device to asses lift/downforce. From what I’ve read, tail extensions like this can create lift; producing diminishing returns as they are lengthened. Reading about pressures makes me want to know what my angled spoilers are doing.


————————

AirTabs. Hmm, yes. I like them although I find them very silly looking. Judging from experiments I’ve seen on similar cars, they’re likely going to be placed around halfway down my rear glass. Energizing the boundary layer to get rid of the separation bubble at the rear should help with overall drag (in spite of the drag from the VGs themselves).

Another option, of which I like more aesthetically, is that of the Ford Sierra XR4i or the Dodge Stealth. These cars have airfoil wings above the transition points from the rear glass to their “trunks”. From Ford’s patent, it can be read that these alter air speed (it’s a wing), which changes the pressure eliminates the separation bubble. Careful work is done to balance the improvement versus the drag of the wing. I assume the dodge stealth works the same way.

Either of these options seem key in removing that separation bubble. The main trick is playing the right hand in order to get more overall reduction versus the device drag of the respective item.

Of course, let me know if I have things wrong. I learn things by doing them.



P.S…..I wonder if there are other areas on the cars that vortex generators or wings could be placed? I wonder if they could help the stock mirrors on my car. Those have terrible flow!
* Out of 84 cars I looked at, less than 6% had an EBLA of 12-degrees.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* The optimum EBLA for any particular vehicle will be a function of the percentage the active aerodynamic aft-body represents, as compared with the vehicle's total overall length, reported as a ratio percentage. Baron Koenig-von Fachsenfeld and Dr. Wunibald Kamm paid particular attention to this particular aspect of dimensional analysis at the FKFS, using the term' Verjungungsverhaltnisse' in referring to it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* The ASTs might help.
1) the XR4Ti bi-wing's upper wing is within 33.5mm of the AST-III.
2) the 1990 Dodge Stealth R/T wing is within 22.5mm of it.
3) for the 1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe, Thomas Gale chose to place the tearing edge of the rear spoiler exactly at the AST-III, just as Hermann Burst had placed the Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7's ducktail spoiler.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* and as to your CIVIC, Honda chose the AST-III for the aft-bodies of the:
1) 2010 FCX Clarity
2) 2012 Insight-gen-II
3) 2013 CR-Z
4) 2013 AC-X Plug-In concept
5) and 2015 ACURA NSX gen-II
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you could do a 'soft capture' of the trunk lid, around it's perimeter, with a shallow framework, onto which your spoiler was attached, there'd be no drilling.
If you wanted to attempt the bi-wing, it could swing from a rear hinge, riding up onto the backlight on cushioned rollers ( EcoModder members have already done this )as the trunklid was opened and closed, with locking clevis pins engaging the C-Pillar extensions, to keep the whole thing secure.
On Spindletop the hatch assembly, I created flying buttresses to sequester flow in between these C-pillar extensions, connected to an upper 'wing' and lower wing, as has been used by Porsche, Lotus, Ferrari, and Lamborghini.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-a...ap-fillers.jpg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS, if you decide to try Ford's bi-wing, we need to talk.
There are some egregious errors in the patent drawings, and if you were to rely on them to inform your fabrication, they could lead you off course.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	member-aerohead-albums-other+vehicles+2-picture275-1984-honda-crx-aero-nose-hatchwing-gap-filler.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	34281  
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 10-30-2023 at 12:28 PM.. Reason: correction
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (10-30-2023)