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racprops · 11-29-2023, 11:46 AM

To answer Ecky:

My interest in MPG started when I was driving nearly every other month from Hollywood CA to all over the USA to work Star Trek and other Science Fiction conventions as a way to support my new life at 30 years old as a TV and Movie prop maker.

As much fun I was having during the 80s, a great combo of making props used in Star Trek 2,4,5,6 and other TV shows and movies, and in-between the professional prop making, I was making models for the fans…it was how I ended up in Hollywood from making ray gun toys for fans, in reality it was not steady work, so I was having a ball doing one of my first loves, road trips to cities and cons to sell models.

It was kind of a fool’s paradise, I was not really making a living…and I was unable to build thing up either…

SO there were trips where the money was thin and getting home was a case of how much MPG my then 74 Chevy G20 Van with a 350 engine, a TH350 3 speed transmission, and a 3.43 rear end, was getting which at best was somewhere around 12 to 15….we barely made it back of a few trips.

And having no credit cards, we had to had to make the cash to get back.

I having been a mechanic from 1965 so was able to repair and maintain my cars, and started looking into ways to improve the 74’s MPG.

First I got a Carter Small Primary Quad, (reported as one of the best MPG Carbs) and even tried smaller jets and larger metering rods, I was VERY aware of the fact that when the engines vacuum dropped below 10 Inches the metering rods were fully pulled out and that I was running on the main jets and NOT making good MPGs.

I was aware of using a vacuum gauge as my first car a 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk came with a full set of 7 gauges…and drove with a tach and vacuum gauges ever sense …and of driving a 3 speed with overdrive. Funny as I never worried about MPG unit the 80s and that 74 Van.

Next great helper was a Enco Driving computer with its ability to display MPH, MPG, and a big help was miles to empty: of travel left in the tank based on current MPG and knowing how many gallons was in the tank.

I was made very aware of how fast I was driving effected my MPG and was forced to slow down to stretch out the fuel left, a number of times.

The next effort was adding a Edelbrock Water Injector, but it was mainly to help with knocking and dieseling of older engines with the switch to no lead fuel.

I think I gained a total of one to two MPG with all of that.

I gave up trying and just got on with working cons and working in Hollywood.

In 1992 due to health problems and seeing the writing on the wall I moved back to Phoenix in 1992 and replaced a totally worn out rusting 74 Van (the roof was rusting from all the morning dew in CA…with a 78 van, same engine and driveline and same 12 to 15 MPG….

Then after a few bad engines and transmissions I bought the current 93 Custom G20 Van.

I had what I believed would get great MPG, a fuel injected TBI system, and a 4L60e transmission with OVERDRIVE and the standard 3.43 rear end.

And ground effects body works that WORK on this van, after over 27 years (1977 to 2004) of passing and being pasted by big rigs at freeway speeds and being blown all over the highway by the bow wake of the trucks this, van WAS NOT BLOWN all over the road, the bow wake was no longer a battle to handle.

BUT this super van was STILL getting only 14/16MPG…WTF!!!

And because I was not doing as many cons as eBay was my main selling system, so I made less road trips and money for trips was no long a major concern and we now had credit cards so the fear of running out of money and fuel was no longer a problem.

Then the second gas shortage happened and every one was upset with cars MPG and a 40 year buddy and I tried to do HHO systems by a nationwide company called Dutchman’s Mileage systems, claiming being able of making cars able to get 100MPG so we tried to make money installing them in cars.

Out of some 16 cars and trucks we had two success stories of cars that seemed to be getting 56 to 70MPG in short tests.

We could not figure out why….we did feel that this company and systems a was 90% scam.

We both returned to our old work. He back to running a junk yard and fixing and reselling cars and me to prop making.

But those two cars haunted me. So I made a second run to make it work. There was just so many claims of HHO working and so many still doing these systems, I felt perhaps it was sloppy product that caused Dutchman systems failures…

So renewed my search for a system. A inspiring discovery of Third gen.org (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums) a web site for 1980s Chevy Camaros and the thread about these cars getting 30/35MPG in Australia thanks to the hidden feature in the TPI PCM called lean burn cruse setting.

And to add fuel to this fire was an English TV show Top Gear Series 12 Ep. 4 Summary: This week's challenge is to drive from Basel in Switzerland, to the north west coast of England. This must be done on just one tank of petrol - no splashing and dashing in France, just one tank. The first to arrive - if any do - gets the honor of switching on Blackpool's illuminations. Some 740 Miles. Air Date: November 23, 2008

So one car is a Volkswagen Polo Blue Motion, a Diesel 3 cylinder that is rated at 75MPG!!!!! and has a 10 Gal. tank driven by Richard Hammond. The second car driven by James May was a Subaru Legacy diesel rated at 50MPG and has a larger tank lastly. Jeremy Clarkson shows up with a Jaguar XJ diesel, this is a full sized car with four doors etc. His plan was to run out of gas near London and thus go home, it was rated at 35MPG.

What happened?? First ALL three cars made the 740 Mile trip!!! What is even more insane was at the end of this show Jeremy Clarkson whom did NOT drive sanely until he had passed London was very surprised the Jag made it, but wait there is more, he reported the shows engineers checked on how much gas was left in the tank and reported that the Jag could have gone 260 Miles MORE that meant the Jag had a range of 1000 MILE per tank.

And there are the stories of European Car owners who took trips to Europe and brought their imported to the USA cars and then shorted out the PCM so they got local European replacement PCMs and gained much better MPG and performance.

The stories if European cars getting better MPG is too common, most of the time we are told it is they are smaller cars with smaller engines…but the above stories suggest otherwise.

And I am aware some of these problems maybe out smog laws…
The 93 Van bugged me…it should be getting 20/25 MPG thanks to the fuel injection and 4 speed auto and its .70 over drive…and real working ground effects but it gets the same MPG my junky 74 and 78 Van got…WTF???

Lastly I made a road trip from Phoenix to Sedona AZ. 116 Miles which is mainly climbing from Phoenix’s 1,086 feet, the altitude of Sedona AZ is 4,350 feet above sea level. That is a climb of 3264 feet.

My Mileage a MPGunio was reading 14MPG most of the run, I filled up before starting and filled up in Sedona and got 14MPG.

Then we drove back and again the MPGUnio reported 14MPG and again a fill up confirmed it.

The van gets 14MPG mountain climbing and 14MPG coming back down the same mountains.

That does not compute, I have long suspected something was/is wrong with how the 93 Van gets the same poor 14MPG as two junky 74 and 78 Vans got.

The Ford Explorers REALLY Give it away.

So yes I think every SUV, Van and Pickup truck at least from the first fuel injected and overdrive transmissions have been rigged to get just about the same crappy MPG of the earlier SUV, Van and Pickup truck got.

We are told over and over again and again…IT IS A Box, a truck so it cannot get better MPG…so we get small improvements…

As one possible reason could be as trucks can be expected to haul a 1 ton load, or pull a heavy trailer, of a lot of people…and to do that an engine running a touch on the rich side makes sense.

They do nowadays have hauling/trailer towing settings which can tighten shift points and lock out overdrives…they COULD had included great MPG when not hauling or towing but they have not done so..yet…that I know of anyway.

Rich

PS A friend with a 2015 Toyota Truck said when switched into towing mode it uses a lot more gas....

11-29-2023, 11:46 AM	#88 (permalink)
racprops Master EcoModder Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 799 Thanks: 4 Thanked 66 Times in 58 Posts	To answer Ecky: My interest in MPG started when I was driving nearly every other month from Hollywood CA to all over the USA to work Star Trek and other Science Fiction conventions as a way to support my new life at 30 years old as a TV and Movie prop maker. As much fun I was having during the 80s, a great combo of making props used in Star Trek 2,4,5,6 and other TV shows and movies, and in-between the professional prop making, I was making models for the fans…it was how I ended up in Hollywood from making ray gun toys for fans, in reality it was not steady work, so I was having a ball doing one of my first loves, road trips to cities and cons to sell models. It was kind of a fool’s paradise, I was not really making a living…and I was unable to build thing up either… SO there were trips where the money was thin and getting home was a case of how much MPG my then 74 Chevy G20 Van with a 350 engine, a TH350 3 speed transmission, and a 3.43 rear end, was getting which at best was somewhere around 12 to 15….we barely made it back of a few trips. And having no credit cards, we had to had to make the cash to get back. I having been a mechanic from 1965 so was able to repair and maintain my cars, and started looking into ways to improve the 74’s MPG. First I got a Carter Small Primary Quad, (reported as one of the best MPG Carbs) and even tried smaller jets and larger metering rods, I was VERY aware of the fact that when the engines vacuum dropped below 10 Inches the metering rods were fully pulled out and that I was running on the main jets and NOT making good MPGs. I was aware of using a vacuum gauge as my first car a 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk came with a full set of 7 gauges…and drove with a tach and vacuum gauges ever sense …and of driving a 3 speed with overdrive. Funny as I never worried about MPG unit the 80s and that 74 Van. Next great helper was a Enco Driving computer with its ability to display MPH, MPG, and a big help was miles to empty: of travel left in the tank based on current MPG and knowing how many gallons was in the tank. I was made very aware of how fast I was driving effected my MPG and was forced to slow down to stretch out the fuel left, a number of times. The next effort was adding a Edelbrock Water Injector, but it was mainly to help with knocking and dieseling of older engines with the switch to no lead fuel. I think I gained a total of one to two MPG with all of that. I gave up trying and just got on with working cons and working in Hollywood. In 1992 due to health problems and seeing the writing on the wall I moved back to Phoenix in 1992 and replaced a totally worn out rusting 74 Van (the roof was rusting from all the morning dew in CA…with a 78 van, same engine and driveline and same 12 to 15 MPG…. Then after a few bad engines and transmissions I bought the current 93 Custom G20 Van. I had what I believed would get great MPG, a fuel injected TBI system, and a 4L60e transmission with OVERDRIVE and the standard 3.43 rear end. And ground effects body works that WORK on this van, after over 27 years (1977 to 2004) of passing and being pasted by big rigs at freeway speeds and being blown all over the highway by the bow wake of the trucks this, van WAS NOT BLOWN all over the road, the bow wake was no longer a battle to handle. BUT this super van was STILL getting only 14/16MPG…WTF!!! And because I was not doing as many cons as eBay was my main selling system, so I made less road trips and money for trips was no long a major concern and we now had credit cards so the fear of running out of money and fuel was no longer a problem. Then the second gas shortage happened and every one was upset with cars MPG and a 40 year buddy and I tried to do HHO systems by a nationwide company called Dutchman’s Mileage systems, claiming being able of making cars able to get 100MPG so we tried to make money installing them in cars. Out of some 16 cars and trucks we had two success stories of cars that seemed to be getting 56 to 70MPG in short tests. We could not figure out why….we did feel that this company and systems a was 90% scam. We both returned to our old work. He back to running a junk yard and fixing and reselling cars and me to prop making. But those two cars haunted me. So I made a second run to make it work. There was just so many claims of HHO working and so many still doing these systems, I felt perhaps it was sloppy product that caused Dutchman systems failures… So renewed my search for a system. A inspiring discovery of Third gen.org (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums) a web site for 1980s Chevy Camaros and the thread about these cars getting 30/35MPG in Australia thanks to the hidden feature in the TPI PCM called lean burn cruse setting. And to add fuel to this fire was an English TV show Top Gear Series 12 Ep. 4 Summary: This week's challenge is to drive from Basel in Switzerland, to the north west coast of England. This must be done on just one tank of petrol - no splashing and dashing in France, just one tank. The first to arrive - if any do - gets the honor of switching on Blackpool's illuminations. Some 740 Miles. Air Date: November 23, 2008 So one car is a Volkswagen Polo Blue Motion, a Diesel 3 cylinder that is rated at 75MPG!!!!! and has a 10 Gal. tank driven by Richard Hammond. The second car driven by James May was a Subaru Legacy diesel rated at 50MPG and has a larger tank lastly. Jeremy Clarkson shows up with a Jaguar XJ diesel, this is a full sized car with four doors etc. His plan was to run out of gas near London and thus go home, it was rated at 35MPG. What happened?? First ALL three cars made the 740 Mile trip!!! What is even more insane was at the end of this show Jeremy Clarkson whom did NOT drive sanely until he had passed London was very surprised the Jag made it, but wait there is more, he reported the shows engineers checked on how much gas was left in the tank and reported that the Jag could have gone 260 Miles MORE that meant the Jag had a range of 1000 MILE per tank. And there are the stories of European Car owners who took trips to Europe and brought their imported to the USA cars and then shorted out the PCM so they got local European replacement PCMs and gained much better MPG and performance. The stories if European cars getting better MPG is too common, most of the time we are told it is they are smaller cars with smaller engines…but the above stories suggest otherwise. And I am aware some of these problems maybe out smog laws… The 93 Van bugged me…it should be getting 20/25 MPG thanks to the fuel injection and 4 speed auto and its .70 over drive…and real working ground effects but it gets the same MPG my junky 74 and 78 Van got…WTF??? Lastly I made a road trip from Phoenix to Sedona AZ. 116 Miles which is mainly climbing from Phoenix’s 1,086 feet, the altitude of Sedona AZ is 4,350 feet above sea level. That is a climb of 3264 feet. My Mileage a MPGunio was reading 14MPG most of the run, I filled up before starting and filled up in Sedona and got 14MPG. Then we drove back and again the MPGUnio reported 14MPG and again a fill up confirmed it. The van gets 14MPG mountain climbing and 14MPG coming back down the same mountains. That does not compute, I have long suspected something was/is wrong with how the 93 Van gets the same poor 14MPG as two junky 74 and 78 Vans got. The Ford Explorers REALLY Give it away. So yes I think every SUV, Van and Pickup truck at least from the first fuel injected and overdrive transmissions have been rigged to get just about the same crappy MPG of the earlier SUV, Van and Pickup truck got. We are told over and over again and again…IT IS A Box, a truck so it cannot get better MPG…so we get small improvements… As one possible reason could be as trucks can be expected to haul a 1 ton load, or pull a heavy trailer, of a lot of people…and to do that an engine running a touch on the rich side makes sense. They do nowadays have hauling/trailer towing settings which can tighten shift points and lock out overdrives…they COULD had included great MPG when not hauling or towing but they have not done so..yet…that I know of anyway. Rich PS A friend with a 2015 Toyota Truck said when switched into towing mode it uses a lot more gas.... Last edited by racprops; 11-29-2023 at 06:02 PM..