Originally Posted by aerohead
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1) All the conditions may occur within a 4-stroke automotive engine, but 'all' the highlighted conditions were not present during MotorSilk's engine testing, nor 'benchtop' tribological testing.
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2) MotorSilk's market demographic was owners of a 1971- through- 1977 car, with 241,420-km - to 321,869-km on the odometer, highly sludged, highly varnished, with carbon deposits, all, way beyond their OEM warranty period, and 'statistical average mean' lifetime.
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3) As too 'engine wear', I'd have to know the individual histories of every vehicle in order to factually answer your question, which even you failed to report, when questioned about your ' Boric Toyota ' experience.
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4) Worn-out cars cannot be registered for operation on public roads in The United States. States recommend that residents report any car seen emitting tailpipe smoke. And states will actually help the owner with a down-payment towards a newer car, in better condition, with operable and more comprehensive emissions control technology.
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5) Contemporary automobile engines have oil pumps which are 'governed', providing only enough oil pressure as needed ( 7 psi @ idle for freebeard's air-cooled Volkswagen for instance ). The pump capacity would allow for 'additional' output if needed, up to a point, regulated by a calibrated bypass circuit. Out of warranty vehicles will typically motor on until age 13-years, when they're taken out of service and recycled.
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6) As to 'mouse milk', I've already 'answered' that.
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7) Southwest Research Institutes' testing of MotorSilk did not represent 'real world' driving, and has been criticised for it by Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
They don't consider either the SAE or ASTM engine test protocols representative of actual tribological dynamics/effects.
I tried to explain it to you, but, either you never read it, or you didn't comprehend it ( # 197 ( permalink ).
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8) As to ' pin-on-disc' testing, you won't fine any evidence that I ever said that this ' phonograph ' exercise was ' useless', only that it was ' not an analogue' for automotive engine testing. And that goes for 'ALL' the table-top' tests that I've listed ( never mentiond by you in the past 28-months ).
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9) As to the 'cylinder ridge', you, nor any of the 'mechanics' provide the back-story for the 'origin' of the ridge.
The automakers have no control over how a buyer will behave with their products once they leave the dealer's lot, and if they'll make any attempt to be pro-active in 'maintaining' the car.
EXAMPLE : My dad owned a Chevy Monte Carlo in 1975, in El Paso, Texas. According to the Owners Manual, for 'SUMMER' temperatures encountered in that locale, the engine required an SAE Grade of oil that wasn't even available for sale in El Paso, including the Chevrolet dealership. I shared the info with my dad, and you might imagine the look on the faces of the dealer's parts department employees when we asked them about it. They had to special order it for us ( the dealership itself, was 'violating' the conditions of General Motor's new car warranty of all the cars they sold! ).
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10) If you were a mechanical engineer you'd know that 'motoring tests' of an automotive engine with a dynamometer 'cannot' duplicate the physics of 'fired ' engine tests. Which also goes for ' transmissions', transfer cases, propellor shafts, and differentials. General Motors Research Laboratories is the only company that I know of that is willing to 'get into the weeds ' to ferret out the finer details of automotive physics. And probably because of Dr. Gino Sovran.
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11) As to piston ring 'lubrication region', it has to do with Reynolds number. Motor oil is a 'fluid' and it is governed by all ground rules for viscous fluid boundary-layer dynamics ( critical-roughness, fluid density, and 'velocity' ).
As of 2004, Energy and Environmental Analysis, Inc, Arlington, Virginia, considered 'piston ring' friction to be solely associated with 'hydrodynamic' lubrication ( 50% of total engine 'friction' ). Professor Obert considered 'Mixed-Film Lubrication Region' in my college text in the 1970s.
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12) As to 'cam & follower', the messengers must first elucidate on the 'type' of lifter they're discussing:
Some engines have needle-bearing roller tappets with 'rolling-sliding' lubrication dynamics.
Non-roller cams have only 'sliding' lubrication functions.
MotorSilk has sugar-alcohol Polyol / Diol friction reduction and anti-wear additives to prevent metal-to-metal contact, which have been omitted from the 'Boron' conversation.
In Formula 1 and NASCAR, the most important 'tribological' challenge to 'winning' concerned the engines valvetrain, which was satisfied with the introduction of Polyalphaolefin ( PAO ) 2.5 ' Synfluid', Group IV, synthetic base oil, of 2.5 cSt kinematic viscosity, from CHEVRON-PHILLIPS CHEMICAL.
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13) I've addressed 'hydrodynamic lift already.
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14) 'Boundary lubrication region' is, by definition, a condition where an oil film monolayer is 'ALWAYS' present between opposed metal surfaces.
They are 'plated' with oil. Asperties are separated by the presence of the thickness of the monolayer. There is NO metal-to-metal 'contact'. If there is, you've exceeded the design envelope for the engine ( surface roughness, viscosity, load factor ).
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15) No one has explained what the surface roughness of plated-on boric oxide is, compared to the OEM's engineered surface.
'Too-Smooth' of a surface can 'destroy' lubrication, something tribologist Lake Speed reported with respect to his Joe Gibb's Racing, Nextel NASCAR race car's cam and lifters. The engine didn't last one-hour. When a new engine was installed for the next race, with 'roughened' metal surfaces, lifespan exceeded 200-hours.
( MotorSilk is designed for:
- 10:1 fill ratio ( by volume )
- 33.14-mph ( 53.3-km/h )
- 2,000-RPM max
- 5.31 m/s piston speed
- Load factor 18%
- 21.99-kW power max
- SAE 20W-30 motor oil, @ 115-C
-Oil change every 4,977-miles
- At 22-C ambient temp
- GM 3.60Liter V-6, DOHC engine
- EPA test fuel
- 2,000 miles to see 'effects' ( predicated upon first using MotorSilk 'Step One' Motor Flush ( MSSO ) before installing new oil and MotorSilk Engine Treatment ( MSET )
- 45-minutes of 'warm-up' driving at 66.8-km/h
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16) 'Additives banned' by Federal Trade Commission' :
* Are you talking about over-the-counter, aftermarket oil additives, like STP, MotorKote, LUCAS OIL, etc. ?
* Or OEM motor oil manufacturers?
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17) Extreme Pressure ( EP ) additives are in the oil to 'prevent' metal surfaces from contacting one another, which allows a lower oil viscosity ( responsible for the decrease in fuel consumption ( not 'friction reduction' ).
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18) 'Boric acid getting the nod' :
The premise was that, ZDDP was compromising 3-Way catalytic converter performance and lifespan, involving rare earth metal group metals like Platinum, Rhodium, and Palladium, all 100% imported by the United States, including from our 'enemies' (just as with 'cobalt ' required for all gasoline and diesel refining for the United States).
Curious though is the fact that, 'Boron' is also bad for CATs.
Equally curious is the fact that, the motor oil industry still does not use colloidal boric acid solution as an oil additive, 33-years after American taxpayers PAID for its 'invention' at NASA.
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19) The U. S. Department of Energy ( DOE ) has the final word for approval to grant licenses to private enterprise, for the use of any technology developed in joint, Government - Private Sector scientific collaborations, through the National Labs' Technology Transfer Divisions.
EXAMPLE: Oak Ridge National Laboratories ( ORNL)s ' Jun Qu spent 10-years researching a proprietary anti-wear agent with, General Motors, Royal Dutch Shell Oil Company, and Lubrizol culminating in 2014 in a product giving a 2% fuel economy increase due to the 'Viscosity' reduction it allowed ( hydrodynamics ).
GM thought it could have the technology in production in 2019. The DOE hadn't committed by the time of the article I read about it, from August 19, 2021. ( most of this type of R & D is 'proprietary' and cannot be discussed in the public domain according to ORNL ).
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20) Some considerations as to MotorSilk's efficacy as an mpg improver:
1) At the load factor Southwest Research Institute tested MotorSilk at, total engine energy lost to 'ALL' engine parasitic friction was around 3% of the fuels energy according to the SAE.
2) It takes a 10% reduction in parasitic friction = in order to realize a 2% increase in mpg according to tribologists, mechanical engineers, industrial engineers, etc..
3) If 'Boron' eliminated 'ALL' engine friction, completely, the mpg improvement associated with it could only be 0.6%.
4) The explanation lies within the ASTM D8114 Sequence VIE test protocol, used, and the constraints it places upon what investigators can 'investigate.'
I believe it to be the elephant in the room, which nobody, other than ORNL is willing to dicuss.
Garbage in, garbage out.
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21) As to 'solid lubricants' used in E-P additives, I'm not aware that any have ever been used in commercially-produced motor oils.
Organic phosphates, acid phosphates, organic sulfur, chlorine, boron-nitrogen, graphite, potassium tetraborate, polyols, PAO, diols, zinc, molybdenum, have all been used 'in solution' added to motor oil to form 'soaps' to protect against metal-to-metal contact, which allows for a lower viscosity oil to be used, which accomplishes the fuel economy increase.
Premium motor oils can be up to 25% additives.
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22) As to a cylinder 'ridge' :
1) Upon inspection, after the cylinder is removed you observe the ridge.
2) You notice that the 'cross-hatch' from the OEM cylinder honing process is 'gone.'
3) All the 'missing' cast iron was essentially 'lost' during the engine break-in period, when the piston rings and cylinder walls 'lapped' themselves in to one another, with the motor oil acting as 'cutting oil' as one would use with a lathe, milling machine, power-hacksaw, etc.. Once the ring and cylinder surfaces have 'mated,' asperities are 'gone', and surfaces are covered in an oil layer, it's 'oiliness' clinging to the 'roughness' on the opposed faces of the surfaces. They're 'plated.'
4) Maximum combustion pressure, forcing the rings towards the cylinder occurs at TDC, and decreases continually as the piston travels towards BDC. Observed cylinder 'taper' is an artifact of this differential pressure.
5) Sub-micron-sized metallic particles may reside indefinitely in the engine, as with the boric acid particles in MotorSilk, they pass freely through the oil filter.
6) In 1983, a team of Honda technicians drove a handful of their cars, on the East Coast, for a 100,000-miles each, changing the oil at Honda's recommended 7,500-mile interval. The cars were then shipped back to Honda in Japan and dismantled. Inspection showed no unusual wear or damage.
7) The SAE SF rated oil, new in 1981, and ASTM Sequence III-D testing showed 64-hours viscosity stability, in 'hot-weather turnpike driving, compared to 40-hours for the SAE SE rated oil it replaced.
8) The piston-to-cylinder gap on my 1984 Honda CIVIC CRX is 0.03mm ( 0.0011-inches )
9) Photographs of the dismantled ASTM Ford, 2.3-liter, IL-4, test engine, after running with SF oil revealed;
- virtually zero fouling under the valve cover
- spotless oil pump inlet screen
- residue-free piston skirts
- zero cam lobe wear
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