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Old 12-05-2008, 04:30 PM   #87 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,151

The Miata - '01 Mazda MX-5 Miata
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Originally Posted by theunchosen View Post
Just because the numbers go up doesn't mean advanced regulations isn't hampering them. It's equivalent to saying that Nascar's restrictions on engines had no effect. Nascar always restricts parts of the car but progressively speeds got much faster(until new restrictor plates were introduced not so long ago). It would be like saying those restrictions did not hamper speed increases because they increased anyway. It's obviously bogus. If the restrictions had never been there it would have been a drastic increase(both in speeds on track and in mpg(although greater track speeds would probably be detrimental to the sport)). I'm sure Deezler could tell you if you rip all the controls and systems of the HD trucks you gain enormous MPG.
I'm happy to see people accepting that CO2 is a big deal that needs to be dealt with... But there are other issues that need to be considered

As a greenhouse gas, NOx is 298 times more potent than CO2... Then there's all of the other tasty bits...

Benzene, for example

SpringerLink - Journal Article
(125 cc motorbike) to the lowest emission (lorry(diesel)) was of the order of 102 for benzene, 6102 for ethyl benzene, 5102 for toluene and 3102 for xylenes. Among cars, those fitted with catalytic converters emitted a lower level of benzene (2 to 3 times) when compared with those without catalytic converters.
Benzene + Regulation

In an interview, William Wehrum, acting assistant administrator for EPA's air and radiation office, said the agency is protecting Americans' health by capping benzene levels. EPA estimates that the rule, which will take effect in 2011 for gasoline, will cost $400 million to implement in 2030 and produce $6 billion in health benefits.

Well your source is being deceptive. 31,000 tons of waste is more NOx SOx than the biggest 3 refineries in the world produce. Those plants only produce 32,000 tons of waste other than CO2 and those are the biggest 3 in the US. I hardly see how it would be possible for 30 refineries to reduce more than 31,000 tons each if some of them don't produce that much.
Details details... It's a combined reduction The point was in response to you saying that there won't be additional reductions for plants and refineries

alot of other cars have seen increases in FE over that time span and yet the TDI is still the exact same mileage over ten years?
Can you back your claims up?

I'm using the Corolla because, as I recall, the engine has remained fairly constant other than the usual year to year tweaks
Toyota Corolla - Standard Gearbox
2009 27/35
2008 28/37
2007 28/37
2006 28/37
2005 28/37
2004 28/36
2003 28/36
2002 28/37
2001 28/37
2000 27/34
1999 27/34

Why not, instead of fighting against current regulation, fight for reformation of current regulation? To include CO2... In this way, we work on a bunch of issues - GW, Acid Rain, and the immediate health side effects. Fighting/resisting something may make it go away - but it's not getting anything done

Anyway Treb quit reading this thread and run some CFD already!
I'm working on it.... The new box is still giving me hell
Cars have not created a new problem. They merely made more urgent the necessity to solve existing ones.
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