Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-24-2017, 12:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,660
Thanks: 7,767
Thanked 8,575 Times in 7,061 Posts
Quote:
Right?
No. There are pronounced jets the exit between the front of the tire and pavement, perpendicular to the direction of travel.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-25-2017, 08:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
kach22i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 4,158
Thanks: 120
Thanked 2,790 Times in 1,959 Posts
I'm looking for a GIF or CFD still of the pressure and air flow of a car tire in a wheel well.

All I found is some related stuff so far.

AERODYNAMICS OF A SOAP BOX WHEEL
Aerodynamics of a Soap Box Wheel

Quote:
The aerodynamic behavior of a derby wheel is important because four wheels rotating at high angular and linear velocities disturb a lot of air. The amount of energy required to move anything through air increases in value by the third power of the velocity of the object. (Not to be confused with the increase in drag - Drag increases with the square of the speed.)
Yokohama Puts Spoilers on Tire Sidewalls for Better Aerodynamics
Yokohama Puts Spoilers on Tire Sidewalls for Better Aerodynamics


EDIT-1:
Some very nice cartoon-like graphics in this link below, the side view mirror one is awesome.

http://www.buildyourownracecar.com/r...cs-and-design/

EDIT-2
http://pulpaddict.com/tag/lap/

Quote:
The image on the left, taken from Jacques Heyder-Bruckner‘s PhD research on wing-wheel interaction, vividly illustrates how the time-averaged image (top) smears away much of the structure associated with the breakdown of a front-wing endplate vortex (bottom).
Source of the above:

The aerodynamics of an inverted wing and a rotating wheel in ground effect

http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/207263/

You can download the doctoral PDF from the link above. It's open-air with wing stuff, not enclosed wheel stuff.

page 33
Quote:
1.2.2 Wheel Aerodynamics
A wheel is a bluff body and as mentioned above, 40% of a Formula One car's drag is
produced by its wheels. The ow behind bluff bodies is known to be unsteady and to
exhibit strong three-dimensional properties [19]. Racing car wheels have the added com-
plexity of rotation, which makes experimental measurements that much more dicult.
Also, the wheels deform considerably under load, their temperature changes and this
would a ect the ow around it. The experimental and computational studies of the ow
around an isolated wheel are reviewed below and it can be noted that there has been an
increase in the research of wheel aerodynamics in recent years
Go to the source to read it, a bunch of missing letters when doing a Copy&Paste.
__________________
George
Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects

1977 Porsche 911s Targa
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up truck
1989 Scat II HP Hovercraft

Chin Spoiler:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...effective.html

Rear Spoiler Pick Up Truck
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...xperiment.html

Roof Wing
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...1-a-19525.html

Last edited by kach22i; 01-25-2017 at 08:30 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to kach22i For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-28-2017), BamZipPow (01-26-2017), rumdog (01-26-2017), slowmover (01-28-2017), Xist (01-25-2017)
Old 01-26-2017, 05:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Re: Road spray



I called MNDoT with my concerns but haven't heard back yet.
Gave MNDoT a week to gather their thoughts and called 'em back just now.

They have bought into a "Towards Zero Deaths" paradigm and if centerline rumble strips reduce head-on accidents by "up to 40% AND SAVE LIVES" then that is what they are "pro-actively, systematically" gonna do, regardless of the downsides of increased road debris/spray kick-up, noise, cost, and pavement degradation.

At least I got those concerns on the radar now; the spray/kick-up thing WAS NEVER A CONSIDERATION. At. All. Before now.

They did pay a bit of lip service to pavement degradation but claim it's inconclusive as to whether water-retaining divots diminish pavement life or not. Well, time will tell on that one.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Lee For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-28-2017)
Old 01-26-2017, 07:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Elmira, NY
Posts: 1,782
Thanks: 319
Thanked 356 Times in 297 Posts
We have the rumble strips here but not the problems you seem to have. Hard to tell from the photo but I think ours are closer together. Back in the '70s the SAE Journal had a paper on truck splash fenders. The sides of the fenders were about four inches and the rear section tapered like a ramp. Never saw them on the highway.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Grant-53 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-28-2017)
Old 01-26-2017, 07:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
MNDoT admitted that some contractors cut their divots more than 2x design depth!

Yep they are aggressive.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Lee For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-28-2017)
Old 01-27-2017, 12:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,660
Thanks: 7,767
Thanked 8,575 Times in 7,061 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee
Re: Road spray (worthy of it's own thread)
I think it is instructive of how the wheelwell turbulence is handled. I've seen some trucks on the freeway in the rain that apparently have an 'anti-curtain' that is sucking a jet outward for a foot from the whole opening.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-28-2017)
Old 01-28-2017, 07:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 2,442

2004 CTD - '04 DODGE RAM 2500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 19.36 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,422
Thanked 737 Times in 557 Posts
The divots are great for what they are designed to do. Same as highly reflective striping. Roads are far better than fifty years ago. Try a windy day and an unruly vehicle.

Now, on the subject of too many road signs, I'd be inclined to agree.

The "curtain" is sure interesting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2017, 09:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
skyking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tacoma WA
Posts: 1,399

Woody - '96 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT
Team Cummins
90 day: 23.82 mpg (US)

Avion and Woody - '96 Dodge/Avion Ram 2500/5th wheel combo
90 day: 15.1 mpg (US)

TD eye eye eye - '03 Volkswagen Beetle GLS
90 day: 49.05 mpg (US)

Mule - '07 Dodge Ram 3500 ST
Thanks: 743
Thanked 528 Times in 344 Posts
Those divots are annoying and they absolutely do result in some shortening of pavement life, especially in the northern states. On Highway 30 in Oregon, between St .Helens and Astoria, the fog lines appear to be a machine formed paint with high frequency shallow grooves. It is unmistakable when you wander onto them.
My chihuahua cross dog is hilarious with road bumps. She sits up on the console, and if I hit a turtle or anything like that her radar ears perk up and point right down at the floor, and then she jumps down by my wife's feet to go check it out. EVery time!
__________________




2007 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW 4x4 with 6MT
2003 TDI Beetle
2002 TDI Beetle

currently parked - 1996 Dodge 2500 Cummins Turbodiesel
Custom cab, auto, 3.55 gears
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 09:48 PM   #19 (permalink)
Grand Imperial Poobah
 
Shepherd777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newington, CT USA
Posts: 247
Thanks: 31
Thanked 488 Times in 144 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Now if they could just get the wheel up behind the aircurtain so it does some good...
Does anyone have an opinion regarding using vortex generators on the outside of the leading edge of the wheel well, in lieu of air curtains?

It may not help on this F150, but on a vehicle where the leading edge and the trailing edge are on the same plane, i don't know why that would not help the aero.
__________________
Bob Sliwa
"Like a Midget at a Urinal, I knew I was gonna have to stay on my toes......."

http://www.airflowtruck.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2017, 08:51 AM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,660
Thanks: 7,767
Thanked 8,575 Times in 7,061 Posts
There is some discussion at 4:30, here:

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com