Software Defined Power

[jakobnev]

Another thing for the Russians to hack!

[ksa8907]

Wouldn't VPP also include any demand reduction programs by the utility? I.E.: water heater/dryer/a-c interrupts, smart thermostat with remote adjustment, etc.

I think we ran through this scenario in another thread a couple years ago, the cost of those programs were significantly cheaper than building new capacity.

[Piotrsko]

Other than running your email on the same network computers, should be difficult to hack. It is kinda standalone, which is the point.

Demand reductions should occur only after the VPP systems run out of charge.

Peakers are pricey because you need to maintain inop equipment and start it, then run it, whether or not you use it.

[redpoint5]

Powerwall don't make sense if there is already an EV in the garage, because those are basically bigger versions of the power wall. There isn't sufficient battery production to meet transportation demand currently, so powerwall is not an efficient use of those resources.

Those with grid connected batteries are already able to provide electricity during peak demand, there's simply no incentive structure in place for people to participate. There will need to be industry standard protocols so that the utility can communicate and control the V2G operations. I don't see why that would be proprietary to Tesla.

The future of electricity needs to be real-time pricing for the individual customer. When electricity cost is high, it provides incentive to supply excess, and provides a disincentive to use electricity if it can be avoided.

Ideally, there would be an app on my phone that I set my minimum sell price, the lowest price at which I am willing to sell electricity back to the grid. The utility would then only draw my stored electricity when price meets that threshold.

Those guys in the video always dismiss the major impediments to renewables. There's no amount of storage that can get us through winter on solar, for example. Where I live, solar production is 1/5th in the winter as during the late spring. That means we'd need to build 5x springtime demand just to get through winter. There's no getting around the need for baseload production, which probably should be provided by nuclear.

[freebeard]

Ideally, there would be an app on my phone that I set my minimum sell price, the lowest price at which I am willing to sell electricity back to the grid. The utility would then only draw my stored electricity when price meets that threshold.

I don't want to watch the video again, but I'm pretty sure it's in there.

Powerwall don't make sense if there is already an EV in the garage, because those are basically bigger versions of the power wall.

Maybe if you live in your car. The solar roof, Powerwall and car form a subsystem.

[Piotrsko]

Didn't watch the video, but your other post indicated there were price points in the software so it could gauge when to recharge.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Maybe if you live in your car. The solar roof, Powerwall and car form a subsystem.

The battery is the single largest cost and the thing that sucks the most (only thing that sucks) on an EV. Increasing investment into the worst product when it can be avoided isn't wise.

The powerwall is an unnecessary expense for an EV owner because the grid becomes the powerwall, assuming a sufficiently large amount of other households participating.

Dedicated and stationary electricity storage makes as much sense as solar on a vehicle. One could do it, but it's not an efficient use of the resource.

[freebeard]

I'm having trouble empathizing with your position.

A grid of micro-grids increases efficiency by high-resolution phasor control within the local substation so that power doesn't need to be imported from a centralized peaker plant as often. And that's whether your car is homed or not.

[redpoint5]

If it made financial sense to purchase a bunch of micro storage to reduce the need for peaker plant production, then it would make even more sense to do so on a macro level. There is no price advantage having the storage be distributed. That is to say, there's no point in fixed micro storage for a typical homeowner.

The battery in an EV is a sunk cost, so if it can be utilized more often, for instance any time it's plugged in and there's high grid demand for electricity, it improves the return on that investment.

[freebeard]

...so if it can be utilized more often, for instance any time it's plugged in and there's high grid demand for electricity, it improves the return on that investment.

.....provided it's not out driving itself around. Maybe there will be a way for cars to participate in VPP.