2004 Civic repair thread
 

This weekend began the repair of the 2004 Civic DX 5 speed that I bought at the very end of January. I started my search for a car back in early December to either replace the Metro, or to drive while I fixed the Metro. At this points I think it will be a flipper and use it while I fix the Metro. But, I haven't driven it much yet so the jury is still out on what this car will be.

Here is a picture of when I first got the car. I'll get more pics as things progress.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1454180195

I got it for a very reasonable $1000, and I was able to drive it home. I bought the car from the original owner, he used it as his commuter for the past 12 years. The car only has 116k miles on it which was a huge perk IMO. Being a deal car though, it obviously has some issues to deal with. Here is what I know is bad so far:

- The input shaft bearing is shot on the trans (common issue). Already got a replacement bearing, a whopping $30 purchase. But, you have to take apart the trans to replace it, so it is a good amount of labor.
- The timing belt has never been changed. Its slightly overdue so its running on borrowed time at this point.
- The clutch seems fairly worn, though I'm not sure if it can be adjusted or not. The pedal engages very high up. I didn't try to beat on it to see if it would slip on the way home due to the trans issue, so I'll likely just replace it when things are apart.
- There is a clicking in the front suspension. I assume this is the control arm bushings as it was with the 2002 Civic I fixed up a couple years ago (common issue). Ball joints will get replaced along with this as well.
- The passenger side exterior mirror is missing the glass. I'll nab one from the local salvage yard.
- The driver's side door lock is screwed up. Apparently the locks wear out (common issue). I'm hoping I can swap the drivers door and passenger door lock assemblies as I'm sure that one was almost never used.
- It has tons of little scratches in odd places (c pillar and above the doors). I'm not sure if they'll buff out or not.


So, it has a lot of labor intensive fixing to be done on it. To help me out, I hired a friend who used to work with my wife. She wants to go to school this fall to be a mechanic and I figured a bit more experience up front would do her well and get my car done faster too.

Our first work day on the car we got a lot done, but nothing fully done. Everything we started on we had to stop due to something not going quite right. First we couldn't get the ball joints out of the control arms. Then, we couldn't get the control arms unbolted from the chassis. Next, we couldn't figure out how to remove the door handle (a quick youtube search fixed this after we stopped for the day). Lastly, we couldn't get the crankshaft bolt off to get at the timing belt. But, we got a lot of things disassembled. :D

So, I have a new ball joint removal tool and a new impact wrench on the list to order today. Suggestions on a good impact are welcome. I am currently thinking of getting and Ingersol Rand 231C. Actually, I'll start a dedicated thread for this: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...nch-33578.html

I'll post up some images of the car torn all apart. :)

I gave the pickle fork one last go last night with a bit more gusto from my 2lb sledge. It ended up working... bleh felt a bit dumb as that was what was holding me back from removing the trans (the biggest issue on the car) on the work day with my helper. Alas, those are out now.

The penetrating oil on one control arm bolt did its job. However, the metal tube in the center of the bushing is bonded to the bolt... So, as I spun the bolt, it bent the upper metal flange as shown in the picture below. This of course ripped the rubber around the tube as it spun. Ack, this one will be fun. Ideas welcome! I left the rest of the control arm bolts to soak in more penetrating oil. :)

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1458048086



Here are some more pictures of the car torn apart thus far.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1458048312

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1458048312

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1458048312

Subscribed.

The lock is probably the latch, generally not interchangeable. Grab one if you can while you're mirror shopping at the salvage yard.

Do you have to buy the control arm to get the bushing?

If so then get an acetylene torch. If the torch is not available a grinder. Cut the outer bearing surface (of the bushing) of the control arm away or burn it off with the torch. Once that is done you can heat the collar and drive the bolt out for reuse, or just replace it and cut it away.

regards
mech

Are you replacing the control arms? Normally when the compliance bushings wear out, Honda wants you to replace the whole control arm and many dealers won't sell just the rubber bushing. If so, cut off the control arm and hold the sleeve in place with vise grips.

FYI If you don't already know, Majestic Honda has good prices on Honda parts.

I'm not sure if I'm replacing the control arms or not yet. A friend at work had the same gen Civic and he thinks he might have a new set of bushings he didn't install. If he still has them they're mine for free, so I'll go that route. Otherwise I'll probably buy new control arms as the price is a wash when you pay for the press work.

I went with aftermarket because they can be installed without a press. Two piece polyurethane bushings that slide in from either side of the hole.
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspension-16-3116G-Front-Control/dp/B000CNAVJA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458165440&sr=8-1&keywords=16.3116G

They weren't easy to get out without a press, but I did.

Got a BIG C-clamp available?

Yeah, I got a pretty decent sized one, 8-10" opening.

Subscribed

Well, not too much has happened with this car. I've been working here and there on getting the transmission out so I can see if I need to order a clutch along with the slew of other parts I need for it. Alas, I have not been able to remove the transmission with the engine in the car. So, its going to come out! I'm hoping to start working on it again a bit this weekend.

By the time you get it that torn down it's easier to just pull the engine/tranny and work on it outside the car anyways.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-da...ng-missing.jpg
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post384700

Yep, thats what I'm finding out! Also the timing belt and water pump will be ridiculously easy with the engine out too.

My daily driver civic's daily oil leak might be getting worse, and the leak is the front main seal, behind the crank pulley... so I have a timing belt removal and possible water pump replacement in my future too.

what are your longterm plans with this car? Why so much interest? You want to become a Civic expert? This isn't a daily driver for you is it? Maybe in the future?

The main reason I got the Civic was the price. I know I can make decent money on it when I sell it. So the plan is to fix it up and then make it my daily driver for a while. At that point l'll decide weather I want to keep it and sell the Metro, or fix the Metro and sell the Civic. I absolutely love the mileage that the Metro gets, but I'm getting sick of fixing the car all the time, and the list isn't growing shorter... It needs the engine rebuilt (piston rings are shot, 125 psi compression), the trans grinds going into 4th, the front brakes need to be done, and there is still a bunch of rust to be taken care of as well. Its all doable and the parts are very cheap, but the time investment is a lot for me.

Anyway, I nearly got the engine out of the Civic tonight. I still have to pull the wire harness through the firewall. The grommet is quite the sturdy little thing. If anyone has any tips on removing it I'm all ears.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1461982978

Well, if it helps you decide... I plan to get rid of my '01 Civic soon because things keep breaking on it. It hasn't been very reliable for me...

The harness was a pain, just keep working at it. I don't remember the grommet being the hard part, but if it is, prying with a blunt screwdriver can be helpful (a nice new flat screwdriver has sharp edges and will tear right through, so don't be tempted to use one) For me, it was more of getting the connector to fit through the hole. Hopefully you have small slender hands, because my big mitts didn't help any.

Also, it looks like you could find a better spot for your engine hoist chains. Your engine is hanging kinda sideways. I grabbed on the backside of the head on the driver's side:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-da...gine-going.jpg

Yeah, the engine is tilted pretty good. I'm going to need someone to rotate it a bit to get it past the radiator support. It shouldn't be a problem though.

Thankfully, I do have small hands. They come in quite handy while working on these cars haha.

Dang about the reliability! I guess I'll have to keep searching for something.

The reliability issue is among the reasons I have kept my civic so long (bought it used from the dealer on warranty in June 2001, yes two thousand and one). It has been my daily driver and cross country car ever since. nearly 240,000 on the odo now. I keep it because I know all of its problems. A "new" used car would be a mystery. From where I sit, it looks like this Civic has more repairs needed than your Metro, or at least that it has as many. The Metro's needs are a list you can just rattle off from memory. Seems you'd get to a reliable and fully functioning ride fast with work on the Metro. But you know the two cars better, so...

I think the build quality on the 6th gen (96-00) Civics were a good deal better than the 7th gens (01-05) from what I've heard and read.

My cousin had a 2000 Civic from new and it lasted him for ages with virtually no maintenance (even when it needed it). Sadly, a ball joint went on it recently (while driving) with 230k miles on it and he sold it off to someone else who fixed it up and kept going.

I agree that its nice to know whats wrong with a car. I'm quite aware of what the Metro needs, and once those things are done it may well last quite some time. Its just getting it to that point that seems to be an issue. :) I do absolutely love the mileage the car gets, its just silly easy to get too. Especially when I came from driving a 97 Sunfire with a horrid auto trans that I think I only ever got up to 35 mpg in the best summer tank. Then jumping in the Metro which handed me 60 mpg tanks in summer without a ton of hassle. Its tempting to keep it and continue modding it as I know there is more mpgs to be had. But, there are other options out there too, and I'll keep my eyes open I think.

It seems like every car that I purchase is about thirteen years old, but I have already had Chorizo longer than most of my previous cars. Now I occasionally hear metal-on-metal when coasting, but not if I use my brakes. For a week I have been planning on jacking up each wheel and spinning it, but I run out of time before work.

My mileage is fine, though.

Hopefully my Civic lasts until at least 2019? :)

Quality in the early 2000's were not great for several Honda models. But, build quality is only part of the problem.

Honda tried a bunch of new things on the 7th gen Civic and I don't think they spent enough time vetting it before releasing them. They focused a lot of attention on safety and increasing interior space, but seemed to have overlooked problems in their new McPherson strut suspension, their redesigned D-series engine, and their transmissions.

You have a 6th gen and I fully intend to still be driving my 6th gen in 2019. ... and beyond! Hang tough, my brother!

Made some good progress tonight. I got the engine out and got the trans off. Turns out I didn't take off two 10mm bolts holding the dust shield on! Oh well, its all easy to get to now.

Here are some pics:

Engine up and out!
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1462333095



Got the transmission removed very easily after removing those two 10mm bolts!

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1462333095



Going to have to crack this open soon to replace the bearing. I'm really hoping the gearing isn't damaged. However, I can't feel hardly any play in the input shaft, so I'm guessing its okay.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1462333095



The clutch looks like its about done for.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1462333095



So, I ordered a bunch of parts tonight:
ball joints
valve cover gasket (its leaking)
timing belt & water pump kit
clutch kit
input shaft seal
output shaft seals
oil filters
air filter
cabin air filter

I started disassembling the transmission last night. I didn't have a ton of time and didn't want to go too far without my helper so she can learn these things too. I got the stuff all removed from the case (detent balls, reverse switch and shifter mechanism), and then I cracked the case open and cleaned the sealing surfaces. The whole thing will get blasted out with a cleaner before reassembling.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1462982953

I'm curious how bad your Input Shaft Bearing looks. On my tranny, the balls just fell out of the cage when it was pulled out. The only thing keeping them in place were the races.

I was going to rebuild my tranny myself, but I had a friend going through school to be a mechanic as well and let him do my tranny as practice.

I'll be sure to inspect it and take some pics. I have yet to actually inspect the gearing too. Though I suspect that it is probably fine.

If it's like the earlier D-series trans, the ISB is something of a weak point. It dies if you chronically run without enough transmission oil--say, if you don't remember that the level will be wrong if you put the front of the car up on stands when checking/refilling the transmission oil... (Don't ask how I know that.)

Removing the ISB either requires a slide-hammer, a bearing puller, or some improvisation and some luck. I believe the input shaft seal has to be replaced to get the ISB out.

-soD

Last night I worked on the door lock problem. I picked up some tools to remove the spring clip that holds the lock in the door handle. Its in a tight spot and you need something sharp to get it started. So, I get the lock out and disassemble it. Yep, some of the tumblers are worn out. The quick fix is to just remove the worn tumblers and leave the rest in. It makes the lock a bit more vulnerable (more keys will fit it), but I can't ever really see that being a problem.

Here are some pictures:

Here is the lock cylinder with the key in it. You can see all the tumblers are flush with the outside diameter of the lock cylinder. This allows the cylinder to turn in the housing. When the tumblers stick out, they are in grooves in the housing which prevent it from turning. As the tumblers wear against the key, they start sticking out.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1463142868



Here one of the removed tumblers and its spring. There are still 5 or so tumblers in the lock to keep it secure.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1463142868



Here is everything. The lock housing, the lock cylinder, and one of the two lock tumblers and springs I removed.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1463142868

Nice fix.

I think my parents' 12 year old Camry will start with any key-shaped item.

(Did I just write that on the Internet?)

It's OK Metro...

Those have a built-in theft deterrent: the badge on the back that says "Camry". It's safe! :p

Daox:
Clever "fix", the door lock on my Civic is still functional, but just barely. I may need to borrow that idea...

Thanks. It wasn't my idea. Google helped a lot. :) The previous owner also told me he already did this to the ignition lock cylinder as well. Typical problem apparently.

More work on the transmission tonight.

With a punch, I was able to tap out the bearing. The punch was pushing on the inner race of the bearing. Thankfully, no puller was needed. Its a very light press fit. To get the new bearing in I used a socket and a mallet to press it in. I also did the seal while I was at it. The old bearing didn't seem horrible once I got it out, but it definitely was making noise. There wasn't a ton of excessive play in it though. Also, all the gearing looked fine.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1463190495

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1463190495



Here is the magnet in the bottom of the transmission. Its got a bit of gunk on it. Before and after pics shared for comparison.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1463190495

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1463190495



After that its just a bunch of bolts and it was back together. For those who are timid about this part of the work, its really rather easy.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1463190495

Nice write up. A magnet, huh? I have been timid about opening mine up. I should do that already, though. It is why I have an extra. So much to do!

Did that have the snap-ring on the end of the main shaft (I think it was the main?) that has to be removed before the case can be opened up? My 1990 Civic trans did.

-soD

Yep, it did. I had my wife help me out for that step. Reassembly I was able to do myself.

Earlier this week I had another work day on the car. We ended up getting the timing belt and water pump replaced, we also replaced the clutch along with the pilot and throw out bearings. Note to others attempting this, you do NOT pull the pilot bearing out. You remove the flywheel and push it out. I learned this the hard way after breaking the bearing puller I had... oops.

After that we threw the trans on the engine and got it almost ready to put back into the car.

Countdown to start-up?

Haha... I dunno. I only have a week and a half and I'll be leaving the country for a few weeks. I have serious doubts it'll get done before that.

Holy cow its a ghost thread resurrection! Actually, I'm just working on this car again. Yes, its been sitting in my garage untouched for about a year now! Life gets busy sometimes. But, I hope to have the engine back in this thing and have it nearly ready to drive by the end of the long weekend.

Last night I started working on things again. My main hang up was the front control arm bushings are shot and need replacing. So, I attempted to take out the rather large bolts, but the front ones were seized to the bushing's steel tube... not good. I tried a few things, but even my impacts wouldn't take them out. It was so stuck it was starting to bend the subframe metal. So, I didn't want to do it, but I went ahead and went at it with the map gas torch. That freed it up and I was able to get them out. Stinky rubber isn't fun though.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1495899387



The next step was to remove the bushing so I can replace it. I wasn't sure if I wanted to just replace the whole control arm (new bushing included) or go with polyurethane. The poly bushing kit is cheaper than a whole new control arm, but I didn't know how much of a pain it would be to press out the old bushings. It turns out it wasn't that hard thankfully.

I drilled the rubber out with a hole saw to get the steel bushing out.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1495899387



Then, I took a sawzall and cut through the bushing's metal outer ring. With that cut, it was very easy to tap the bushing out of the control arm as it is typically press fit.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1495899387



So, I ordered my poly bushing kit last night. My question for those who have done it (I know Darcane has), is how did you do the rear control arm bushing? I'm thinking I'm just going to leave it as it looks really hard to get out and it really isn't deteriorated like the front one was. But, if there is a good way to get it out (without a press), I'm all ears.

After getting the control arms out and bushings out, I worked on the driver's door lock. I had fixed the lock itself, but it was time to reassemble it. This was interesting trying to remember how everything went after a year of not working on the car! However, with the help of google and some diagrams I was able to get everything put back in place. Yay, now you can unlock the car with the key again! :thumbup: