2015 Ford F150 goes on a diet, loses 700 lbs. (Aluminum)
 

i just learned the 2015 Ford F150 will drop 700 lbs (out of 5000) by making its body 97% out of aluminum. that should boost economy a lot.

the frame will still be high strength steel.

http://www.ford.ca/trucks/f150/2015/

they've also anounced their 2.7L ecoboost engine

Ha - kind of? :D

I'll split that to a new thread.

700/5,000 = 14%.

That relates to a 7% mileage increase, right? One MPG?

should help urban MPG alot. hwy, not so much.

also improve cargo capacity, towing capacity, accel, braking, and it's less momentum to crush little cars in a crash

Why not fiber glass like they have or had done with their beds?

Less weight is good, means you can haul more stuff
That is part of the reason I switched to LiFePO4 batteries, they save me at least 100lb.

FE improvement through weight reduction is a hard expensive way to pick up MPGs.

My Ranger is around 2975 curb weight. My 97 F150 was 3800. The base stripper 2015 will shed 700# from the previous models 5000#? Man they porked out!

regards
Mech

Gutsy move by Ford. Hope they pull it off. There will be any number of wags claiming Aluminum will be difficult/impossible to repair after a collision... but if Ford preps their shop people right, it shouldn't be any more difficult than steel.

What's even more amazing to me is that they're claiming prices will not go up (significantly or at all)... this could mark a milestone for aluminum use in automobiles.

Note that there are areas that are still steel, because it's still too hard to make them in aluminum... hence 97% instead of 100...

Pretty sure some article said they're going to lose profit margin by using the aluminum. Loss leader parts.

Per vehicle yes, but if their fuel milage is better than the other guys they can make up the gross profits through more units sold.
If sales go on as normal and no one seems to care they can always just raise the price later on.

i think they said it was all the same alloy too, so that should simplify repairs a little bit.

audi's and jags have been all aluminum for the last little while. I think repair shops will be capable.

I wonder if/when they will address aerodynamic drag?

the manly men who buy these trucks would not stand for an aerodynamic shape.
they want it to look boxy.

when Ford went to a rounded aero front around 1997, sales dropped off, but the next gen with a squarer front and sales rebounded.

same thing with big rigs. truckers resisted aero fronts, even though it was lots of $$ out of there pockets paying for feul

I get over 40 MPG in my Civic, but the guy that sold it said that he got twelve in his truck. It is almost like their ego depends on converting money into pollution.

A friend said, "Guys just looove putting gas in those things". They do!

The lightest current F150 is 4680 lb. 4x2, single cab, short bed, V6. 700 less than that puts it below 4000 lb. A Camaro SS weighs 3900 lb. For a truck with nearly a one-ton payload capacity (1700 lb in that config), that's mighty impressive.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/spec...ions/view-all/

http://www.oldride.com/library/1963_chevrolet_c10.html

1970 CHEVROLET C10 Information Specifications Resources Pictures

Not impressed. At. All.

It still looks less aerodynamic than my 2003 Ford 150. They have regressed.
The new Ford van looks like an aerodynamical failure.
They should have considered using an Alulight all metal aluminum foam frame. It is half the weight of a steel frame and much stronger.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/a.../image-802.jpg

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/a...image-1006.jpg

Money though, aluminum frame cost is a lot higher. Even Porsche doesn't have any plans for aluminum frame yet, they're talking about carbon fiber bodies before aluminum frame even though they already have full aluminum bodies.

"Even Porsche..." But Chevrolet's new C7 Corvette DOES have an aluminum frame, even on the base model:
Chevrolet News - United States - Corvette/Convertible

The old ZR1 C6 Corvette also used an aluminum frame, but it commanded a much higher price.

That said, I'd still be surprised to see aluminum on a truck frame.

I am curious is the extensive use of aluminum in new cars is going to lead to aluminum shortages or anything like that. F150 has very high sales numbers, that's going to use a lot of aluminum...

That's true, but the price also went up considerably from the C6, whereas Porsche did not increase the MSRP by as much going from 987 to 981. Okay, the C6 also got a real interior, but 6000 bucks is a lot.

I believe aluminum still hasn't really fallen in price, either the aluminum industry needs some efficiency improvements (maybe via thermoelectric tech?) or the price of electricity needs to go down for cars to really start using a lot more aluminum, especially where it counts most, in the frame.

I noticed that a Nissan Sentra Zipcar I drove had incredibly thin steel panels that I could dent with my bare hands, those can't weigh much. I know that switching hood and trunk to carbon fiber saves something like 30 pounds for my car, which isn't a whole lot. Switching the doors to carbon fiber saves like 30 but if you add back in the crash reinforcement bars that drops. All in all the bodywork probably only weighs 100-200 pounds on most cars, while the steel frame is easily several times that. The Mclaren MP4-12C carbon fiber tub (without the front and rear aluminum subframes) is already 176 pounds. The Evora has a 440lb aluminum chassis.

Why is it better to form the body out of aluminum instead of the frame? It seems the body has a much more complex shape and requires the metal to not only be structurally sound, but visually free of blemish.

I would think an aluminum frame and plastic body would be the ideal combo for weight vs price.

Trimming the weight allows everything to be smaller, including the engine, frame, brakes, axles, etc. Whenever the cylinder count or size can be reduced, big savings in MPG can be realized.

I'm sure you have made a post on your LiFePo4 batteries, and I'm sure I've read it... what batteries did you go with, and how many? Do you use a BMS?

I'm considering LiFePo4 on my motorcycle where weight can really make a difference.


My Dodge/Cummins has a 35 gallon fuel tank, and I have to admit that filling the beast makes me feel like I've got a serious machine. The noisy 5.9L turbo is pure joy to run fuel through. That said, I cried a little on the inside once when the fuel light came on, and putting $20 into the tank wasn't enough to turn the fuel light off.

Carbon fiber is too expensive and time consuming for high production. Small parts can be mass produced using the FiberForge.com process. Mercedes and BMW are using this, as well as the US military.
Alulight tubing is stronger than steel and can be robotically welded. It has tested very well in crash tests and the US military is using it as armor on some of their combat vehicles.
It would lighten and strengthen the frame if only the ladder frame rails were replaced. This would still be economical and buyers would appreciate the quality.

Road noise, safety, comfort/features. Not all necessary, but there is a reason new cars weigh so much.

The great thing about Alulight aluminum foam panel is that it is a very good insulator against sound and temperature.
I will be using it on my Stanley Rocket monocoque body. It has twice the torsional rigidity of aluminum sheet. It can be welded or can be bonded together with epoxy.

There have been some comments on here about how sharp broken carbon fiber is. It does not seem perfect for the parts more prone to encountering human flesh.

The Alfa 4C and BMW i3 represent recent advances in bringing carbon monocoques to affordable production cars.

As for alu truck bodies, ask anyone who's got an alloy panelled car how easily they dent and how much more panel shops want to fix them. Doesn't seem like an ideal choice for a 'working' vehicle. Unless Ford do something in these regards, I see some very low resale values down the track, as well as bringing down the F150's image.

The Ford 150 could easily adopt to this technology for all of the body panels and would be nearly indestructible. The great thing about the FiberForge process is that body panel designs for an entire body can be retooled in a mater of weeks, not a year.

http://youtu.be/5WpZg_oSWQA

Here is an article about Tesla using this process:
http://www.teslamotors.com/de_DE/node/3841

It doesn't cost anything to repair dents if you don't fix them. Trucks are meant for work, and stuff that is used for work get dents. I don't see cost of repair being a major concern regarding the body construction of a truck.

That said, I still think plastic is an ideal material in this regard. It's cheap, light, and resilient. Saturn's had plastic body panels, and a friend of mine showed how it could be severely deformed and still pop back to the original shape. Not only that, but infusing the color within the plastic means that you cannot scratch the color off. What does plastic have going against it?

Problem is a 10 year old truck will look absolutely beat to death compared to a steel one. It could work to Ford's advantage though as in "look how beat that truck is but it still runs!":D If buying a used vehicle, I'll take the one that doesn't look like it's been to hell and back, and that resale value means unrepaired damage does cost you money. Dealers repair dents prior to putting traded vehicles on sale. AFAIK paintless dent removers won't touch an alu panel. All potential issues at resale.

Plastic would be a far better solution, but I bet Jim Bob 'don't want no stupid plastic truck'. On that thought he might not want no soda pop can truck either.

My 1997 f150 2wd, 6 foot bed, 4.6L, ex cab,full tank gas,without me in it 4700# at the weigh station.

Good point about the battery. I think this is a prime example of where a cap would help vs 2 monster units.

Im sure if they could do a few 100 more by looking everywhere and reducing the quantity of fluids everything needs. I know some guys anal enough to short the engine a qt of fluid as well as drain the windshield washer and over flow bottle. :eek:

Gotsta be Bud cans.

Hmmm... similar thing with the 'Stang, wasn't it? They had a very attractive New Edge Mustang, but then they replaced it with the aerodynamic brick that was the retro Mustang, and sales skyrocketed...

Might be some difference between forged CF used in racing cars and hand-laid carbon-fiber on supercars, but I've never heard of it being a problem during supercar wrecks. And I've never heard of a driver being injured by CF during an F1 wreck... they're more a danger to the tires of other drivers, who stand to get a puncture from the shards that result when CF is used to dissipate the energy of a 100+ mph crash. A crash which would otherwise cause a lot of sharp, twisted metal bits to fly around if the car were made of metal, instead.

Aluminum cars are $$,$$$.$$ to fix when you have body or frame damage. Has to do with the riveting process used.

Then again, modern cars are already $,$$$.$$ to repair, aluminum or not. High-tensile strength steel, airbags, pre-tensioners...

Worst are the hoods with explosive bolts that pop-up to protect pedestrians... one of the local Jags had the bolts go off on the racetrack when the driver hit a traffic cone. An "accident" that would cost little more than a good buffing in another car (if it were needed at all) turned into a very expensive parts replacement affair... :D

Impressive in the wrong way, 'cause you're looking at it backwards. You OUGHT to be asking WTF a Camaro weighs 3900 pounds - double my Insight, or a Lotus Elise.

2 of the batteries are made with CR26250 cells. The original battery, the small one uses 20 cells, the second larger battery uses 28 cells.
Then the super battery uses eight AMP20 cells.
No BMS.

Here is the latest update to my LiFePO4 battery project:
DIY: BYOB, for more power, a lot less weight - Page 7 - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

No fair. That was 44 years ago; 44 years of bureaucrats running amok adds up to a lot of weight.

Carp about modern vehicle weights all you like; they weigh what they weigh, and trimming 700 lbs. (seven hundred pounds!) is a significant accomplishment. Ford deserves praise for this move, not derision because the F150 is not a Lotus Elise.

Look at it this way. By shedding 700 lbs. from the best selling vehicle in the US -- not to mention offering 2 (two!) engines specifically targeting fuel economy -- Ford will be causing millions of gallons less fuel to be burned. That's a good thing no matter how you cut it.

I'm considering an EV conversion for my Ford 150 with a couple of Leaf battery packs and a Tesla motor. There should be plenty of wrecked Tesla cars on the market, soon.
Here is an image of the Tesla pickup design.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/a.../image-755.jpg

Considering that aluminium is already widerly used to make work truck bodies, such as flatbeds and van bodies, I don't see too many reliability concerns. Regarding dents or any other minor damage, we can expect some redneck-engineering to fix it with Coke cans and Araldite :D

The Tesla Roadster has a rear deck lid made out of carbon fiber using the
Fiberforge: Lightweighting Your World® With Thermoplastic Advanced Composite Parts process. This can replace all of the body panels.

In an Intense Time for Hybrids and EVs, Fiberforge Lightens Up - YouTube