2018 was the last year you could buy a full-sized pickup truck with a manual transmission
 

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1548084792


The dumbing down of the automobile continues! And it has efficiency implications, too.

Not only are some full size pick-up trucks now getting worse MPG than their predecessors (reversing a long trend), the EPA-beating ability of choosing your own gear has disappeared for the 2019 model year.

The last manual transmission truck you could get is the 2018 Ram 2500.

Even with the eleventy-billion-speed automatics now commonly available, remember that the EPA ratings of manual transmission vehicles are handicapped by the test methodology. It's always easier to beat the EPA with a manual than with an automatic, simply by using the most basic eco-driving technique of up-shifting to the highest usable gear after accelerating.

I've never driven a full-size pickup with a stick, though there's a nice 70's F150 in a nearby town that has a 3-on-the-tree. I can dream.

Source: https://jalopnik.com/this-is-the-las...ick-1831744609

Considering in 2018 only 3 percent of vehicles sold in the USA had a manual transmission this isn't surprising. There is no reason to add cost to a vehicle by offering a manual transmission when so few customers buy it.

Noted more for it being the end of an era than an actual rally cry to...

Save the Manuels!

Part of the problem was the epa test itself. It basically was punishing the manuals. Like you pointed out the EPA test is easy to beat with a manual, or another way of looking at it, the epa test was unfair to manuals. So then put them side by side on a new car lot and the sticker tells the buyer there is no fuel savings to be had. In reality you get a cost upfront savings, a long term maintenance savings, and a fuel savings. All that did t kill it, what killed trucks not having a manual option is cars not having a manual option first. A truck is usually a 2nd or 3rd vehicle and if you don't ever learn on a car you won't buy a truck with one.

Don't worry; there are more than enough Manuels and they're busy making even more all the time.

Offering a manual costs the manufacturer around 10 million in government testing.

Remove the testing and it costs absolutely nothing to offer an already designed manual from another market

For the average driver? Not sure about the fuel savings.

There are a couple of manuals in my neighbourhood, and I swear they never get out of 2nd gear on my street, 50 km/h = 30 mph limit.


But for any driver interested even in basic eco-techniques, the manual is a no-brainer for savings.

I have the man trans in a CTD Dodge (signature). 5+1 forward versus the 3+1 of the 2004 auto.

Once the 4+2 auto became available (2006?), the “advantage” of a manual dropped way off. (It’s big selling point had always been higher reliability; like that engine, rated for 35k gross vehicles; thus greater tow rating).

The mating of a CTD and a manual is a marriage made-in-heaven: massive TQ (1400-rpm peak) off the line with fuel delivery that keeps engine from stalling. Never really have to rev the engine (2900-rpm redline & HP peak) unless loaded AND on a grade.

But,

1). The man trans is slower to speed. Always.

2). The auto features TWO overdrive gears, thus is at a lower engine rpm for a given set of light-load conditions on highway.

3). The auto trucks have final drive gear-ratio advantages. The engine displacement and power have been increased sustantially since mine, thus the current configuration turns fewer RPMs at 70 than I do at 58.


For several years now Dodge has ALSO offered an XHD automatic.


It may be “easier” to get higher MPG with a manual, but one is thoroughly out-of-sync with other traffic while so doing.

That last is the tipping point. It is my God-given American right to phone text at any moment and under any circumstances. . Dodge caved to the latest USSC rulings, essentially admitting itself wrong in believing a tee-nine-cy amount of IQ was required in order to safely operate a motor vehicle.

OTOH, having a manual means effective anti-theft is built-in. And the vehicle is without a VERY complex hydraulic system with potential heat-related problems.

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I thought that was the only reason to own a truck?

And It’s not like my fathers motorhome or a semi are in sync with traffic either

Is this a HD truck-specific comment? Because it's demonstrably false in a car.

Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L

Other traffic will just have to fend for itself then.

1. The regulatory and testing costs aren't trivial. As you said they are millions and that cost is spread over a small number of vehicles

2. There are LOTS of other cost associated with adding a transmission


Logistics / Manufacturing / Sales

• Shipping racks have to hold more than 1 transmission. This adds engineering complexity and cost
• You need clutch shipping racks.
• You need to spend engineering time to layout the station where the transmission is bolted to the engine
• You need a new DC tool on a torque arm (and maybe a crane system to hold the tool)
• You have to spend engineering hours to develop the assembly process and write work instructions
• You have to spend engineering hours to update the programming stations
• You have to spend engineering hours to update dynos
• You have to fly engineers and technicians from every plant to corporate to be trained on how the parts are assembled
• You have to train line operators on how the parts are assembled
• You have to train someone at every dealership on how to service and repair the transmission
• You have to stock the parts the distribution center and service parts in dealerships
• You have to spend money to program the ordering system to add the option and decided on compatibility codes.

Engineering / Part costs:

This is the big one. I've been dealing with this for 6 months on a new vehicle that will go on sale in 2021. We are laying out the components on the firewall. We have new ECU's and associated wiring and have to find a place for them. No matter how we arrange the components we run into the space allocated for the manual clutch and reservoir. To solve this problem and bridge over the space for the clutch requires an extra bracket. This bracket adds material and labor cost to every automatic transmission model in order to allow for an option that sells at less than 5%.

Thanks for the detailed inside perspective, JSH.

I’m an insider as well and the costs he lists are mostly vested because the XMSN is already in use other places, acting as if all those costs aren’t already sunk is misleading, also manual transmission information and Designs change much less often and in the case of GM body on frame at least
even will hook up the same across platform generations.

I am the guy responsible for much of the list he states and we definitely avoid updating documentation or tooling across the board because of a transmission , the designer would really have to f up to make that happen.

The current vehicle I’m on needs to be tin cupped meaning I have to re use the existing and spare tooling, no budget for most of his list.

Which testing is that - EPA ratings cost that much?

Platform laws drive unnecessary crash tests, generally a different motor or transmission is treated the same as being a completely different vehicle
Or in the case of the Prime a solar panel on the roof is treated as a different car demanding new tests

Let me guess design guy right? :)

I'm the manufacturing engineer responsible for most of what is on that list and those are real costs and costs that are incurred at every plant that builds the vehicle. Every plant is unique.

Of course the only tooling I mentioned was the DC tool and those are pretty cheap (about $100K). The rest is hours / travel.

And I'm the bean counter who says we wont make near as much bank never fixing inexpensive manual transmissions while we make make millions fixing $6000 out of warranty 8 year old 6-10 speed and CVT automatics.

It's still possible to get a full-size with a manual south of the border...

I never worry about it. But the average driver does.

There’s a point in the acceleration curve where the boost really comes on. In 5th (Direct) I can usually blow past those trying to get ahead of me from another lane to enter a highway if I so choose. Can be fun to disappoint them.

The truck is 9,000-lbs. And I can upshift at 1,300 if I choose. Slow? Ha! Glacial.

The approach is to stop acceleration about 10-12/mph below target. Sort of drift upwards with terrain.

In town it’s related to gear choice. Not easy to stop that mass. So sometimes a lower gear (it’s happy all day fuelwise at 17-1900. Even though it can lug along at 1,100).

The only thing that works is to glide. And autos are better at that. Same with this Peterbilt I’m in. Also an auto.

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In 2011, I wanted an Eco-Cruze with 6sp. manual tranny. But the Chevy dealers wouldn't come down in price, plus they didn't have any! Went to Hyundai dealers for a cheaper manual tranny Elantra. Couldn't find one locally. Two years passed, & I got an Elantra at a lucky good price, altho it was an automatic. Liked the Elantra. Three years later I got a manual Elantra...... $8500 less than the Eco-Cruze. Them's that wait a while...... "MAY" get what they want. Anyhow, we have two Elantras now(same color THAT I LIKE!), an auto & a manual. I love them both, but my wife only likes the....... MANUAL TRANNY. Three of our four cars have manual trannies. Will four cars last, till we find another manual tranny that we don't have to pay an arm & a leg for?

Our auto Elantra shifts into high gear with low acceleration at 43MPH, at ~1400rpms. Using CC on flat ground, I can slowly reduce speed to 36MPH & it stll holds high gear at 1200rpms. I took the auto tranny information to heart, after purchase of a manual Elantra. Yep, 6th gear at LESS than 35MPG..... since the manual is geared lower than the automatic.

So you expected to get a deal on a special order Eco-Cruze? Dealers don't stock manuals because they don't sell.

My wife and I wanted a manual when we purchased our Jetta Wagen TDI last year. The dealer had 63 of them on the lot. Only 1 was a manual at it had 130K miles on the odometer. There wasn't another manual advertised in a 150 mile radius.

We ended up with a nice 2014, certified pre-owned, fully loaded, with 33K miles for $13,000.

Such is life.

As long as you get a contact south of the border, or in Europe, you'll be able to get a manual transmission at your doorsteps to adapt into roughly any US-spec car for a while :D

The Eco-Cruze was never advertised as & the dealer never said it was special order. Waiting, I eventually got an ever sweet Elantra, brand new(6 miles) with 100,000 mile warranty(40,000 miles still remaining), hot off the trailer, for LESS than $13,000.
& I didn't tie myself to AND reward a liable auto manufacturer for their long-term criminal avoidance of major pollution penalties.

. As stated above, "minus an arm & a leg", I'm sure. Might as well get a good deal on an automatic & get ready to pay my mechanic when the tranny fails. At least, get a Hyundai (or Kia) with the hundred grand warranty....... Oh, I did that already.
Someday, maybe I'll get a Mecum or Barrett/Jackson 1960's car & retro it with big shiny alloys, raised white letter tires & a 5speed tranny. Lots of sparkly metal flake, too. My long time mechanic will do all that "special stuff".

I've never had an automatic transmission fail, even after a couple hundred thousand miles. I have 2 friends that go through at least 1 automatic transmission no matter what brand car they drive (Ford Ranger, Lexus ES, Acura MDX, Mazda)...

It's the driver, not the technology. They use the skinny pedal as an on/off switch rather than a method of maintaining speed.

You could also argue it's the technology ( or the implementation):

- e.g. Nissan is infamous for CVT failures
- Honda is well known for slushbox failures in its V6 drivetrains
- Ford's dual clutch autoboxes in the Focus & Fiesta are known to be problematic

Edit... but there's no doubt a certain kind of driver is more likely to expose those transmissions' Achilles heels.

One of the easiest ways that auto trannies are destroyed: While backing up in reverse & NOT coming to a full stop (still moving backward), then prematurely shifting into first & applying throttle.
Of course, the very complicated 9 & 10 speed trannies that Chrysler & Ford have produced, have given auto trannies bad rep. Altho I loved the CVT in my Dodge Caliber, all the hoopla against CVTs got me to sell the Caliber before the CVT had problems..... having to replace the gasket between the engine & CVT tranny didn't help either.

You will need at least: transmission, clutch assembly, shifter, and ECU. You will also likely need the engine harness or someone that can take your harness apart and splice in the required wires / connectors. Then you will need to cut a hole in the front wall and maybe relocate some components.

Oh, and that ECU likely won't work with the rest of your car's electronics so you need someone that can program it. If a manual was never offered in the USA you will need someone that code and write the parameters for your unique engine / transmission / emissions combination.

Any car not on the lot is a special order.

You are asking the dealer to order a car at your request, wait for it to arrive, and hope that you don't change your mind between the time the dealer orders the car and when it arrives. To take this risk dealers charge full MSRP or close to it if you want them to order a car for you. The reward has to be worth the risk.

No, I never have ordered a car. If it wasn't on the lot, I went to other lots. You can't shoehorn me, into rich people's shoes.
Repeating as you repeat:
The Eco-Cruze was never advertised as & the dealer never said it was special order.

Have you never seen those JDM cars which are converted to LHD when they're exported? Cutting some holes in the firewall, sealing the stock ones and relocating some components is far from being rocket science. Splicing a harness might be a PITA, but it's also doable.


Most of the coding/programming can be distributed through the internet, as it's already quite common for purposes other than a transmission swap.

Not trying to shoehorn anyone. I'm simply explaining why dealers don't negotiate price on cars they don't have on the lot and would have to order

Repeating:

Why would a dealer negotiation on a car they do not have to sell you?
How did you expect the dealer to get the car they didn't have on the lot? (Unless they ordered it for you)

Maybe if there were some gassers with such a low-end torque nearly as low as at idle, even though not even nearly as crude as this Dodge Power Wagon with its flathead-six, I guess more Americans would eventually become inclined to learn how to shift their own gears...
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0eMmvPewK...2Bda%2Bprf.jpg

What are you twittering about? I drove to the dealer for an Eco-Cruze, they didn't have one & the dealer told me to go to Hyundai to get an Elantra. I obeyed his advice, to my many years of happiness with the Elantra, my avoidance of the Cruze, AND my further purchase of another Elantra.
You just don't like a happy story & need to get the last word.

I guess I was confused by you saying the Chevy dealer wouldn't come down on the price of a Eco Cruze.

Enjoy your Elantra.

Believe it or not, a single-cab version of this beauty is still made in my country, and its only transmission available is a 5-speed ZF manual.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aNUjBEaK-...2BCatarina.jpg

Manual 5 speed over an ottomatik
 

Two reasons I favor a manual transmission. #1 I cannot repair an automatic #2 I drive a 4 cylinder 99 CR-V and do occasional towing. The 5 speed gives me a greater range of gears than the auto, and, I get to choose when the shift happens not the trans. I moved my son from Southern Calif. to east Texas 10 years ago with a stacked high 4x8ft. trailer. Third and fourth gear were very useful in a few places.