2023 Toyota Prius - WOW!
 

Toyota has made a BIG change with the new Prius / Prius Prime

The Prime has:
A 2.0-liter plug-in hybrid with 220 horsepower
A 0-62 mph time of 6.7 seconds
A 50% increase in EV range
1.5 kW power outlet

Toyota decided that we could have performance and efficiency in the same vehicle and it isn't even ugly

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/38225618.html

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/Zn...prius-2022.jpg

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/Rq...prius-2022.jpg

Autoweek has the best summary I've seen:

https://www.autoweek.com/news/techno...ails-revealed/

Why does it remind me of a Lamborghini somehow?

Another 2023 Toyota Prius thread - WOW!

I think the interior is a big upgrade as well. No more instrument cluster in the middle of the dash - Toyota moved it to in front of the driver were it belongs.

The only miss in the interior for me is the traditional gear shift lever. It just takes up space in the center console and blocks access to the cup holders. Considering there is no mechanical connection to the transmission a giant lever isn't needed for leverage. It should have had a low profile rotary shift knob.

I used the shift lever extensively in the Gen III. Since the car would start the engine above 60 MPH, I'd shift to neutral just before crossing that threshold, thereby keeping the engine off. I'd also shift to neutral to coast.

I can get used to wherever the control is, but the lever was pretty intuitive and accessible.

I'm a big fan of the bridge style center console so that things can be stashed out of sight below, and other stuff can be placed above where it's easily accessible.

Wish this car was hideous so I could get it at discount at some point in the future.

I've always found the bridge style center to make a cabin feel cramped. I don't have kids though, and don't keep masses of things in my cars.

Bridge style is nice for road trips where you want to put a snack down somewhere within reach, without it flying about when you take a corner. Or perhaps a place to put a parking stub. Anything to prevent things from falling into Satan's crack (between the center console and seat).

I keep only a few things in the center console, like flossers, mints, a few quarters, and a couple pens. I keep a very uncluttered vehicle.

As one does in a Prius. :D

I liked the Insight's spacious, open cabin. I could sit cross-legged in my seat with cruise control on, and tuck bags of snacks in next to the handbrake.

https://i.imgur.com/ZLvSgB7.jpg

Man, I'm really missing my Gen III now. I viewed it as an appliance, but it's been my 2nd favorite car (first was a 1996 Subaru Legacy)... but I like actually driving the TSX more, which is why it stayed.

I still miss my 1959 Rambler American station wagon.

I used the shifter on my Gen 2 a lot too - mostly going from drive to engine braking in the mountains after the tiny battery fully charged the car stopped regeneration. It was up on the dash and out of the way.

With a rotary knob shifter you would rotate one click counter-clockwise for neutral and then one click clockwise to go back into drive. Every rotary shifter I've used has been P-N-D-L, just like an old column shifter.

For me the more storage the better. I don't keep a lot in my car but it is important to have a place for my wife to stash her purse if she doesn't want to take it with her.

I'm used to the rotary knob in the Ford Fusion and it's perfectly fine.

I probably only used L in the Prius plug-in twice or so. It kicks the engine on using that mode, so I'd only do it once the battery filled up, which only happened twice that I can remember. One was coming down from Crater Lake, and the other was coming down from Yosemite.

I don't think there's any way this new Prius is in my future though. Might go for kid #3, and as it is a 5-passenger vehicle is inadequate for a family of 4.

Toyota needs to hurry up and develop a plug-in Sienna.

I agree a 60 mile plug in sienna would be nice. Although my parents made us stuff into a 4 door 90s sedan until we were full grown so I think a prius could work. So don't spoil those kids too much ;)
A sienna hybrid gets 36/36 and tows 3500 though. Thats pretty impressive. With the insurance on a 3rd vehicle being some what expensive i think a sienna to replace a tow vehicle and a econo box would be a good idea.

Believe me, I'm not considering kid comfort whatsoever in my vehicle choice. As I'm always saying, whoever is in the back seat is getting a free ride, and people that get free rides don't get to complain.

Problem is, even with just 2 kids and a 5 passenger car, you cannot give even 1 other couple a ride. In-laws come over, and they've got to drive separately everywhere we go.

I bet once I get a van my friends will be borrowing it all the time. They're just too useful.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...4-11-26-01.png

When I was driving the '56 Sunroof, I had two step-sons who rode in the luggage compartment behind the back seat (preferentially) untill it was all arms and legs hanging over the seatback.

Vans are super useful.

However, I suspect you will find out that even with a minivan you may still end up driving 2 cars places.

This summer we had family in and had 4 adults / 2 teens to transport. I was hoping for a minivan but wasn't willing to pay $900 to reserve one when I can show up and take any car on the rental lot for $230 a week. This time no minivan. However by the time we loaded up 6 people / luggage / cooler for 3 nights in Bend there wouldn't have been enough room in a minivan anyway. I had both rear hatches filled - the rental Blazer and our TSX wagon.

It was a tight fit 4 years ago putting 6 people and cargo into a Dodge Caravan for a day trip to the beach

Why such a giant battery / long EV range for a PHEV? Realistically you are looking at about a 35 kWh battery to get that kind of range in a van which is almost as big as the base Leaf.

I truly don't get the push for PHEVs with giant batteries. 20 - 30 miles covers the majority of trips and I can't see there being actual savings from paying thousands more up front for the big battery. It seems people just want to drive all their city driving on EV and only use the gas engine for long trips.

I've considered this fact too, though it's only seat space I'm concerned about. I can always expand "stuff" carrying with a hitch mounted cargo box, or a trailer, or...

It's actually the 7 seat limitation I'm concerned about. If we go to a family of 5, that means there's only 2 seats left for others. Nearly all our friends have kids now, so it wouldn't fit 2 families.

Heck, even at our current family size, we wouldn't be able to fit my wife's parents plus mine into a 7-seater. Need 8...

Which has me thinking along the lines of 10 passenger vans. Nope, I draw the line there. For the infrequent times we would need the extra space, I'll just drive 2 vehicles instead and enjoy the much improved fuel efficiency of a minivan.

Probably more like 25kW but yup. Larger batteries live longer. Allows you to cycle them less. Hey while the american tax payer and the rest of the world are absorbing the inflation on the dollar and the government has no plan to do anything about debt or inflation might as well cash in and use the tax subsidies to let everyone else pay for a bit of your vehicle. Its the last finale and it's only fair. lol

redpoint5: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=airport+limousine

I have semi-joked about a limo for kid-hauling. Roll that privacy glass up and seal the noise in the back.

No, it's worse than that. The tax subsidies don't even go into the consumer pocket, because price is set by supply and demand. Big automotive corporations have a limited supply of EVs, and when consumers mentally subtract tax subsidies from the price, the manufacturers increase price to capture the artificially inflated value.

So, it's a wealth transfer from US taxpayers to large, mostly foreign automotive corporations so wealthy folks can drive a new car.

The Chrysler Pacific goes 32 miles with a 16 kWh battery. Assuming no loss of efficiency from a heavier battery you are looking at a 30 kWh battery to go 60 miles.

Yes, a bigger battery would help offset someone repeatedly draining them. I suspect most of the PHEVs with battery issues are from people cycling the battery twice a day or more.

I guess I just don't see the benefit outweighing the compromise to cost, weight, and packaging it in a PHEV where you still have to fit an ICE and battery in the same vehicle.

The Pacifica PHEV already loses stow n go seating because the battery is under the floor where the seats would fold. It weighs 5,000 lbs empty and only has a GVWR of 6,300. Put 6 average adults in it and you have 200 lbs left for cargo.

I wouldn't expect any subsidies on PHEVs in the near future - I suspect automakers will focus their efforts on putting North American sourced batteries into EVs before PHEVS.

I agree. Its like every other problem the government causes with guaranteed money.
Anyways I think the 2023 should be a great prius. I'm interested in how the mechanicals are. Gen 3 and Gen 4 were unreliable compared to the normal toyota average.

I think they really fixed the Prius styling by giving it a Dodge Dart back end. I really like it. I will be checking out the price on the AWD version. I wish the Prime version was AWD like the Rav4 Prime. Oh well, I don't have a plug in anymore as I moved to an apartment.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-h...2022121026.jpg

The Prius isn't exact but the dart is the first car I though of when I saw it. The Prius looks better.

Okay, it's starting to grow on me. I think it's the body crease that points directly at the bumper cutline that leads into the tailight.

I'm still reminded of Jack Rikard [RIP] demonstrating that when he wedged himself into his Tesla he couldn't lean out far enough to reach the door to close it.

Not to mention even smaller cars which are still widely used as family cars in other countries. Just look at Mexico for instance, where the VW Beetle and the Opel Corsa B used to be prevalent. And I still see these in Brazil, and the Fiat Uno, being often the only car available for some families.

Idk the old one failed the awd test so bad i would say completely avoid the "awd". Maybe its like toyota's cvt transmission, maybe their version of awd means someting different. lol
If it cant at bare minimum unstick itself on the cross test its not awd.
I think the main failure point is it needs some sort of way to simulate a front locker besides the extreme lack of power in the rear. Like how some manufacturers hold the front brake on/off to simulate a diff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsxG...channel=TFLnow

FWD is already pretty sick in snow though so no big deal. I put the hurt on 2wd trucks in my prius when it snows. 63% drive axle weight bias ftw

Honestly to me if you put an opel or vauxhall logo on the new prius i would believe you.

This is what makes me laugh about California trying to ban gasoline cars and forcing everyone to buy EVs.

Considering the amount of energy, often far from "clean", being used to power some expensive, heavy and unaerodynamic all-electric SUV, eventually some smaller and more reasonably-minded car running on ethanol might effectively have a lower carbon footprint. Even corn-based ethanol makes some sense, as it's a byproduct of high-protein concentrates used for cattle feeding. Not to mention nobody complained about the corn ethanol brewing being "inefficient" when it comes to some alcoholic beverages :D

Yeah this is true. Its all tough though. The amount of fertilizer we use to grow that corn or milo though cancels it out i bet. It does burn really clean though. Fertilizer increases your crop production by up to about 10x using petroleum derived fert almost entirely. If we didn't use fertilizer we wouldn't even have enough farm land to support the amount of people we have on this earth i bet.
People would be suprised how much we depend on it.

awd is tempting for me but ive never had an issue getting stuck in the snow with fwd in my ioniq with snow tires. only times ive been stuck in snow is ground clearance. too much snow build up stops me around bumps or under body

Did someone say ground clearance?

jalopnik.com: This Lifted Prius Trolls Jeeps

Yeah lifted. I wish I could get an adjustable suspension for my Ioniq. Push a button and it lifts for snow. Push another and it gets really low for better aero

:thumbup: Right on! That's my dream vehicle. One with adjustable suspension. I like the "sedan" feel of a car, not necesarily on pavement, but on ice and snow. But then I get into the deep snow and wish it were a few inches taller...

Then again, EV's promise low center of gravity with the ability to have a higher ride height. Still, I'm not an SUV fan.

As far as the new Prius goes, it's alright, but not great IMO. Although if my Avalon were to die today, I would seriously consider one.

Problem with ground clearance is you're always limited by wheel size. Once a control arm or pumpkin is dragging, that's about it. There's basically no getting around to ground clearance being limited to half the height of the tire, and a little less. Every inch added results in half the ground clearance gained.

Fluffy stuff can be pushed a bit. My buddy Craig with his custom made "Craig Chains" where he replaces the cross links with large diameter chain links can push quite a bit, but it piles up quickly and there's a limit, and clearing that limit takes a lot of effort.

Machines made to handle the snow float it, not penetrate it.

At this point in my life, I think I'm more about low ride height for efficiency and handling, and the right machine for when the snow accumulates. I don't yet have the right machine for accumulated snow.

Wheel well size is effectively a limiting factor to improve ground clearance...


Have you ever been in a rice farm? Urea, the same compound used to make DEF, is used to replenish the soil with Nitrogen. Farming fish such as tilapia in the soaked areas where rice is cultivated does the same, without the expense of adding some chemicals, and it also keeps some pests under control as the tilapia will eat insects for instance.

Getting stuck in deep snow in my "low ridding" sedans and hatchbacks only happens about once every 5 years (even with snow tires and chains on), which is why I carry around a shovel in the trunk. There are a few dirt roads it would be nice to not have to scrape bottom every now and then in the summer (even with carefully trying to avoid stuff). A couple inches more might be all that's needed. But then again it's not worth it to me to go get a CUV/SUV/pickup or install adjustable height suspention on the car. Only if someone would trade their Suzuki Samari for my Prius would I be at all interested in the idea.

Yup im just saying nitrogen fertilizer is still made from oil. I'm fairly certain it was like a german nazi or someone who made the discovery of using oil to create fertilizer which allowed the world population to increase.
I sometimes spray water down def as fertilizer. Its only slightly more expensive that bag fertilizer lol. Or it was. Prices on things are funky now.
Off the top of my head you can make a bermuda pasture grow 10x more mass in a season using the correct amount of fertilizer vs the control of using no fert. 10 times!

I just hate how the green fairys focus on one area and not 99% of the other use.
Extremely off topic though i apologize lmao.