40 + mpg out of a mid size truck?
 

Hello.

I'm looking to get a small or preferably mid sized truck in the near future and I'd like to get at least 40 mpg hwy 30 city out of it. Any recommendations on what truck and/or what engines to look for? I'd really like to get something a bit bigger and more powerful than a rabbit or pup, but I could live with one of those.
I was going to try and build a tube frame vehicle to do this but the cost of getting one built is looking to be a tad prohibitive and I lack all of the machinery to do it myself.

I'm afraid without massive modification and drastic driving technique changes, you'll never even get close to those figures. You should be able to see 30 city with much practice ecodriving, but 40 highway is a really far reach. Most guys with small pickups are lucky to be averaging over 30.

Do you really need the pickup? Are you hauling stuff that you absolutely can't fit in a hatchback with the seats taken out, or something like that?

4-cylinder Ford Rangers, Chevy S-10s (GMC Sonoma) can both get great fuel economy.

Get a stock one with a manual transmission, do a few aeromods, lower it, and you got a pimpin' truck.

I also used to have a hatchback that I removed that back seat from. It really was amazing what would fit in there. I was very tempted to remove the passenger seat as well.

PS: My backburner project is to put a diesel engine from a Mercedes 240D into a Chevy s-10. That should hit 40 mpg AND be able to run on bio-fuel.

There are two attractive alternatives to owning a truck. One, even a small hatchback can tow a 4'x8' trailer, and thus move furniture, go to the hardware store, whatever. Two, you can rent a pickup from a hardware store or a car rental place for a very reasonable rate.

Or you could buy my Subaru Legacy wagon and cut the back off of it to make a 4x4 pickup truck. :-P

80's Toyota pickups are known to get 35 highway with conservative driving. A decent hyper miler with some aeromods could probably see 40 highway with one, in proper tune.

40 +
 

40 or over is pretty ambitious.If you've looked at the VW diesel Rabbit-based truck,then you're already familiar with that.My friends early-1980s Toyota diesel pickup,at the old 55-mph speed limit could do 38-mpg.A recently resurrected Mitsubishi diesel truck was so disappointing in mpg ( lucky to hit 30mpg ) that it's already been disposed of.Friend John Gilkison did see 42-mpg at old 55 limit,on downhill reach with tailwind descending from Cloudcroft,NM to Dona Ana,NM.--------------------------- I'll be lucky to see 36-interstate/38-hwy with the full boat tail trailer-T-100 combo.----------------------- If you found a pre-Tacoma,say,1993 Toyota,you might do it with extreme mods.That truck will do 31.6 mpg in interstate driving,with a cab-high cap (straight top and sides).-------------------------- You would probably have to lose the entire bed and build from scratch,with as much plan taper as would just contain the rear wheels and teardrop taper to roofline,with increasing tumblehome,such that at the tailgate,the sides would be rolling right into the roofline in almost semicircular form,viewed from rear.------------------ You'd also need a completely new all-curvature nose,full wheel skirts all around,complete bellypan with diffuser,airtight optimized cooling system,sculpted rocker panels,Moons,tire fairings,and boat tail.---------------------------- If you had the fortitude to work through that process you would have done the "impossible."

A couple of folks on cleanmpg.com have achieved 40 mpg with MT Ford Rangers with the 2.3 L engine, hypermiling. I'm in favor of the subcompact pulling a trailer idea, myself.

In 1989, Dodge diesels came with a 3.07 rear gear...if you bump the timing and swap in a gear vendors or overdrive trans out of a 91-93 model, you should be able to hit 30+. You'll also have about 250-300 hp with the turn of a screw, and be able to tow 10K. You could also get a later 91-93 truck and swap in the earlier rearend. Might be easier than a trans swap. There is a guy over on some diesel forums that gets 33 mpg in a 1-ton dually with this setup driving 65+mph. If you slow it down to 55mph and use a lighter truck, I think 40 is possible.

Edit: I just saw your goal of 30 city....that's one thing this type of swap won't do....you'll probably get 17-20mpg if you drive with a light foot. But it does work well on the highway.

As a person who has squeezed some decent MPG out of a truck, here’s my two centavos.

I don’t know if it can be done but if it can you will have to do EVERYTHING right. Consider this: Almost every vehicle known that gets a consistent 40+ MPG is a subcompact car, even then most of those are hybrids or little diesels.

If it can be done, it is not to be done with a little coroplast and duct tape. You have to go to war with the road load equation.

First order of business is adjusting the nut behind the wheel. Go to CleanMPG, An authoritative source on fuel economy and hypermiling and read Wayne’s manifesto on hypermiling. Take it to heart. Adopt not only the techniques but the state of mind he outlines. Whatever you think of Wayne, he has the goods. He could probably squeeze 22 MPG out of an unmodded H2 Hummer. Without closely approximating his driving, 40+ is not in the cards.

If you have to have a truck, start with an S-10. I say an S-10 is preferable not for any qualitative reason but for the sheer practicality. There is all sorts of mod equipment out there for S-10s. For other trucks you will have to get a real good relationship with a fabricator. Early 90s S-10s can be had for a song, and an off-key song at that. The body-on-frame architecture is easy to mod. Many S-10s came with 14 inch wheels, so you can use the most LRR tires available. If possible get a 4x2, manual shift, long bed truck.

Get a 3/5 slam kit and install it. This lowers the ride height 3” in the front and 5” in the rear. More than 3/5 is available but super-slammed sport trucks are not practical on the street or normal roads.

If you are under 6 feet tall, look into getting the top of the cab “chopped.” This is an old an proven lakesters’ trick to reduce frontal area. Not cheap but it works. If you want 40 MPG, you cannot leave any stone unturned.

After slamming and chopping the truck, lose the stock bed. Have a custom bed fabricated, tapering the bed to a boattail in both the plan and elevation views. You should count on reducing wake area to less than 35% of frontal if you want 40+ MPG. Make the bed out of the lightest material you can afford. Only the bottom of the bed needs to be strong. While you are at it, have the rear axle narrowed so you can taper in even more on the plan view. The long bed layout will allow more length for reduction of wake area while keeping flow attached. Aerohead has mountains of information on this.

No way you’ll be able to see out the back of this setup. Design a CCTV system to give you some idea what’s behind/beside you.

Needless to say, you’ll need front and rear wheel skirts and Mooneyes.

You’ll need to swap out the engine and transmission. For an S-10, the best engine is probably a VW TDI, preferably a pumpa duze engine. (Common rail engines are very new and finding one is not likely. An old 4.3 GM diesel would work but good luck finding one. A 4BT3.9 Cummins is too heavy. Get an adapter made to mate the engine to a Tremec T-56. The T-56 has a very wide spread of ratios and its huge 0.5:1 overdrive will allow you to find an axle ratio that will let you run the engine under 1500 RPM at highway speeds.

Get rid of the auxiliaries. Lose the power steering and power brakes. S-10s in stripper form came that way. They are probably the last pickups that could live without PS/PB. Rip out any radio or stereo. No way you can retain an air conditioner and expect 40+ MPG.

Put the truck on a starvation diet. Get the smallest battery that will start you engine, and the smallest alternator that will charge that battery. Rip out all the soundproofing. Rip out all the interior trim.

Leave the brakes alone. S-10s have weenie brakes as is.

Finish off the aero package by covering the belly best you can and replacing the bumper and grille with rounded replacements with minimal openings.

All this is stuff racers have been doing for decades.

Unless you have the physique of Lance Armstrong, go on a diet. If you are like most Americans you should be able to diet off 20 lb. At this point another 20 lb off the truck may be much more difficult than taking it off you.

Get LRR tires. Inflate them rock-hard.

To tell you the truth, the project is not worth it unless:

You are over six feet four inches tall

You absolutely need freight-hauling capability

Or
You want to make a point

If none of those apply, it would be much easier and cheaper to find a woebegone first generation Insight and restore it.

For some the simple challenge of doing it is worth the effort. At that point the truck ceases to be a DIY economy vehicle and becomes a true hot rod.

IMO, a DIY economy effort won’t get to 40 MPG. A true ecomodded hot rod just might.

And I don't believe for a minute an old Dodge with a 12v Cummins will get 40 MPG. I don't believe 27 unless you never drive over 35 MPH.

my 86 toyota 2wd got 25city and 30 mpg without trying; full of power tools, fire wood, rocks etc.
the guy who had given it to me, had added some coil springs from an escort front end. he clamped them on top of the leaf springs. i never had any trouble towing a jeep or boat, moving 1500# of stone etc. that truck could take any abuse i could throw at it.

i had the 22r motor, which I loved, but a diesel should easily get 25 percent better mileage, and a veg oil conversion is pretty simple on old toyota diesels. i think with an aero cap and some other basics. your goal should not be a problem

another good option would be a plugin series hybrid pickup.
there are lots of s10, and ranger conversion kits out there.
if you have the cash.

just run a wvo generator to recharge when you need more than a 40 mile range

if we are talking about full drive train swaps anyways might as well go all the way.

What classification is an S-10/ranger?

Seriously- no way.

And... priced a GV OD lately?

methinks Big Dave has been dreaming of that truck for awhile


good stuff though

I have an old Ford with the 6.9L IDI (a full liter bigger than the 12v) with no overdrive and have gotten 28.5mpg (avg) at 45mph plus a little city driving

The 27 mpg was at 50-55 mph. Those old 12-valvers are pretty thrifty engines, although keep in mind my truck also only weighs 4850 lbs, which is pretty light for a diesel. Injector design also plays a part. Those dynomite diesel injectors are really efficient. When I switched over from those to the ones I have now (which are 300% larger than stock) I dropped about 2-3mpg but gained 100 hp on nitrous....

the last I witnessed a 40mpg truck was little chevy luv carbed, mastered. Like cars in the same standard, exhaust had to be changed, egr gadgets, etc.
there is the rabbit, but transverse unibody with the top cutoff hardly carried a gallon of milk. :confused:

that may be another last of reality vehicle...like an old sube with dual range. The fule injection argument for efficient is a hoax, no modern truck, actually a TRUCK is going to get anywhere close to it. it needs super stoich metered for the engine wthout an ECU. The last frustration to mention, is trucks ride rough, a bump changes a squirt of fuel into the slob of injections reality, carbs didn't. I grew up through this stage of changes in autos, it is a buried story I like to repeat often. :rolleyes:

Here ya go: 40mpg mid size truck...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxnU3F6EM-0

Pretty entertaining also!

Ecomods for truck
 

I spent many hours modding my old ford ranger, mostly to no avail.

You can do all sorts of mods to the trucks to squeeze one or two mpg's out of the truck more than you could get by just easy driving style.

If you make all the said mods to a truck, such as lowering truck height, removing stock bed, tapering the bed from all directions, adding all sorts of bells and whistles, you might end up with a very economical vehicle (but not a truck).

I found that in the end after all the ecomods I did to my truck I increased mpg by aprox 10-15%. Not bad, but would have been much better if I had bought a smaller car, and left the truck for being a truck.

It's real simple. Lighter weight equals more mpg's. Trucks aren't light weight. They don't generally get good gas mileage. You can make them lighter, and more aerodynamic, but then you don't have a useful truck.

Bite the bullet my friend, either drive a small truck and get 25 mpg max on average, but certainly not when the truck is loaded with stuff (i.e. when it is being used as a truck), OR buy a smaller car, and get better mpg's. OR use a big truck when you need it and something smaller when you don't need the truck OR if you are really desperate for great mpg's ride a bicycle, walk, take the bus, train, or carpool.

Don't waste your time and money modding a truck into something which gets good mpg's but ain't a truck!

Good Luck with your endeavours!

I get 25mpg on average with a full size (technically commercial) truck, using it 90% "as a truck", fully loaded (for work hauling and moving)
And I haven't done anything to lower the weight, haven't modded the bed in anyway, and haven't lowered it (yet - that one will be done as soon as I can afford it).

Its best to use a small car whenever possible (or a bike better yet) - the OP did say this is the families 2nd vehicle, meant to be used as a truck. No reason not to get the best mileage possible those times when you do need 3 tons of hauling capacity.

the way i look at it

is that an extra car (regardless of price, even FREE)
always cost at least $700 due to insurance/registration

does that extra $700 warrant a truck youll use 1/month? or 1/6 months


25 mpg in a truck sounds great to me.
an aerocap might increase that by 3mpg(?)
but unless its done on the cheap, it might/might not be worth it

To Jacobaziza
 

Wow...

Thats amazing about your full size truck! You really should tell Chevy, Ford, GM, Toyota, and Nissan, and all other makers of full size trucks about your record breaking mpg's...25 on average 90% loaded...was it the truck that was loaded or you?

I've never heard of a full size getting more than 20 average, while fully loaded, with no mods, as you say.

I'm sure the engineering dept's of those companies would be more than happy to hear how you were able to accomplish this feat...downhill w/ a tailwind, and no brakes? 90% loaded with air? what's the secret? inquiring minds wanna know!

:thumbup:

As Jacob has explained a number of times, the "secret" was his driving technique. The truck was loaded; he was not. He could tell the manufacturers how he got the fuel economy he got, but the manufacturers couldn't give the back end of a rat how people drive their vehicles.:p They're not affiliated with the Department of Education.

It's up to you how you choose to drive.

I've only gotten inside EPA's 2008 revised city/highway estimates once with my 2007 Mustang. I tell the service department at the local Ford dealer about my MPG "problem" when I take it in for service. They just smile, and say, "That's great!" They're glad I have that "problem". :thumbup: :D

Is this ecomodder, or truthmodder?
 

C'mon guys...I've been driving trucks of all sizes for 30+ years now, and I've never seen a full size truck, loaded, get 25 mpg ever.

Unless you take that full size and load it on the back of an 18 wheeler, no one is getting that mpg out of a fullsize truck, it just aint happening.

Unless your driving style is engine not turned on, coasting down a hill, or parked in your garage it just ain't kosher.

It's a nice thought, but it defies logic, engineering, and truth.

As PT Barnum said many times...

It defies your logic, engineering, and truth.

What reason does the guy have to lie? To impress a bunch of people he's never met, many of whom don't even think twice about his existence on a daily basis?

Maybe you're into that, but I doubt anyone whose here in a serious capacity really would even bother. Your fuel logs are for you, not to brag and blah blah. If you don't believe him, I guess that's your given right, but to say that "it defies logic, engineering, and truth" is just plain false. It's sentiments like that that keep people in the dark when it comes to getting more bang for their fuel bucks.

By the way, he gets a 30% bonus right off the bat... he's got a diesel.

Gee, what's 20MPG plus another 30%?? Hm... guess he was right.

I've seen guys make similar mileage claims for their gassers and my response is similar- they are full of it. But in this case, it's a diesel and you could practically outrun the guy the way he drives.

I dunno, my only running Ford's economy is rated in GPH, not MPG. It's an F-series that gets used for a tractor more than anything. i don't think that trans has seen second gear in more than a year.

Guys in full size GM pickups do NOT get 25 mpg, I don't care what they say.

WTH? Where did that come from?

Knowing that it is a diesel makes it much more believable. (even though I believed it from the start)

:D :P
This thread has been very entertaining to catch up on!
Very.

Ok.
I genuinely have been getting 25mpg.
Thats average, over many tanks, many months.
I use the truck for moves, hauling, and transporting tools to jobs. I'll fit a 1bdrm apt in the back, boxes, furniture, everything the customer owns, all in one trip. I haul 3 tons of soil, rocks, or broken concrete. I recently moved a 2000lb safe. This is all a mix of freeway and city streets.

I don't have any instant feedback, so any number I have is an average over an entire tank.
My best mileage to date is 28.5mpg.
The 28.5mpg run way empty one way, and then about 1000lbs on the return trip.

I didn't say I haven't done any mods, just none that involved fabrication or needed a mechanic or special tools or anything expensive.
I have done quite a bit of modding (coroplast aero mods and accessory downgrades) but all things that would be in easy reach of the thread topic original poster.
I wrote up all my mods here:
Vehicle efficiency upgrades: 28.5mpg (so far) in 2.5ton commercial truck
Easy, cheap stuff.

Driving style is a big part of it too. Frank Lee is right (assuming he can run 50mph). I drive slower than normal, but that is because my truck has no overdrive- its max efficiency is around 25-35mph.
Someday when I can afford a 4spd tranny, I'll start driving 55 (the limit for commercial trucks, which- technically- mine is)


The auto companies have always known how to get better mileage. The problem isn't them. Its the American consumer. They all make efficient vehicles - to sell in Europe, Asia, and Latin America. GM makes a van - not a mini van, but a commercial van - that gets 45mpg. Sold in China. Hybrids sell here because you can get kind of decent mileage while still having A/C and thick cushy seats and 8-second 0-60 acceleration and 20 million electric gizmos and lots of truck space and room for 6 people even though 80% of our car trips have only 1 or 2 occupants.


Incidentally, I just turned my tonneau into a makeshift aerocap by putting the rails on triangle pieces of plywood.
Its too soon to say if it makes any difference at all.
If it does, I'll mention it on my original thread about the truck: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-2-a-8613.html

And I totally agree with alohaspirit: if you are only using a vehicle occasionally, it usually makes more sense to rent one than own your own.

I had a 1965 Datsun L320 Pickup.

1200 CC engine with a itty bitty Nikki Carb on it.
4 Spd on the column...

Got right at 35MPG on the highway. And I was 16 and drove it like I was....16
Lord knows what kind of mileage it would have gotten if I ever shifted below redline.

The good old days...

Dave

It's not impossible But I don't know how much cargo you could carry and still get 40 mpg. I am pondering regearing mine again (89 F150 4.9 2wd) Originally had 4.10's now 3.27's and I'm leaning towards 3.08's, even on the highway at steady 55 the engine wont settle into a steady load so it pulses dipping to 27mpg on accell and soaring to 45+ on the mini coast. Soon I hope to get some weight in it and see what I can get when it is working.

Funny I just saw an old Ford Commercial for early 80's F150 they boasted about 20 city 30 highway mpg.

With how I used to drive :( I got 13 on average. still holding down 25 mostly in town.

Just ask the experts....
 

Well,
Since I appear to have offended a few people here, I figured I'd go back and look up some real data...

You guys should check out TheDieselStop.com for info on guys driving 6.9 liter diesels of all sorts.

As you may choose to see, none of these Ford 6.9 liter diesel owners are claiming to get over 20 mpg under any driving conditions.

They all get around 18, at best.

Sorry, blame someone else, not my data.

As long as some people keep believing that big vehicles can get high mpg's when fully loaded then some people will believe anything.

I'd love to see a big truck get good mpg's it just aint happening.

;):(:mad::D

thats not evidence.

thats like going to a street racing website to "prove" that a honda civic can't possibly get 90mpg, and basjoos must be lying when he claims to.

The people at deiselstop aren't trying to maximize their mileage. If they were, they would be posting here. Before I started hypermiling and ecomodding I was getting 15-17mpg too.

Its not a matter of your "data", its the fact that you are implying that I and other truck owners on this forum are lying.
Its not even offensive as much as just baffling. Why would you even look up a forum to get typical mileage? I have a mileage log which shows the average in my signature. If you don't believe its possible to get better than typical mileage using a combination of mods and driving technique, why aren't you raising the same objection to every post on this forum?

A couple of years ago I had a 1985 Ford Ranger with the v6, I think it was a 3.8 and a 5spd. Just driving around I got about 17 mpg, but it was ok because I got it to be a truck and not a daily driver. Then I had to start driving it more, and I had to slow down because I was driving very winding mountain roads, and the shocks were really bad. Keeping it under 50 mph jumped my mileage to about 27 mpg, and I was amazed. I was picking up rocks beside the road on my way home from work for a landscaping project, and loaded down with a half ton of stone, on mountain roads, I still got 25-27 mpg, as long as I drove with the tailgate down and kept it around 50 mph.

This isn't hyperbole, just personal experience. I'm not saying anything about any other truck on the planet.

Just 'cuz you can't do it, don't mean it can't be done...

That's a great quote! :thumbup: Hope you don't mind if I put it in my sig. :)

It had a 3.0 in it. I don't think Rangers ever got 3.8's.