550 Spyder (1300 lbs) + TDI diesel
 

Hi, folks. Noob, here. Just bought a Thunder Ranch 550 Spyder (replica of James Dean's Porsche) & had a bad idea (my favorite kind):

Can you install a modern VW diesel engine (ala Top Gear's "Project Sipster")? In a 550? Has anyone tried?

I'm aware of the many reasons NOT to do it, but is it POSSIBLE? A 1300 lb car + a motor that pulls 40MPGs in a 3000 lb Jetta has to be good for at least decent gas mileage, right? If a watercooled Subaru WRX engine, will work, why not a diesel? Tom @ Thunder Ranch told me it could be done... with a little creativity in the motor mounts/half shafts dept.

I'm no mechanic so I reserve the right to be wrong about everything.

But if If anyone can, I'm hiring :-)

nathanabbott -

WELCOME TO EM! I've been waiting for years for someone to Ecomod a 550 Spyder!!!

The following is very simplistic, but I think it shows what the possibilities could be :

I'm not car mechanical smart, but as long as there is enough clearance, I would think it could be done. I am thinking the "normal" FWD layout of a TDI would interfere with the process (or just increase the cost of doing it). The mid-engine 550 was just a reverse-mounted boxer engine. I also think you could get even more MPG with a smaller displacement TDI engine from Europe. But maybe that would make things harder to to certify.

I edited your title to say "550 Spyder" instead of Pyder. I hope that's ok. I guess Pyder could be an "in the know" contraction of "Porsche + Spyder".

CarloSW2

nathanabbott -

Maybe talk to Craig :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tdi-14758.html

CarloSW2

I knew you'd be all over this!

I remember a post here by someone who put a diesel in a 356 replica.

I am thinking about one in my $700 MG replicar with a 73 VW platform.

regards
Mech

Here you go.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ion-10871.html

regards
Mech

Thanks, guys. I shook the bushes @ all the VW TDI forums, too. (most replies so far: ecomodder:-).

Here's what i've found, RE: radiator placement:
- VW Scirocco radiator may fit up front
- radiator might work in a Porsche whale tail
- small Porsche 997 radiators could work in front or behind the rear fender vents
- flux capacitor

I'll keep you guys posted on project status.

Oh! BTW, "basjoos" lives just across the state line from me. Time to aeromod a Porsche...

"Pyder"... "Spyder"... Yeah, I guess that works, too ;). Thx, '83

Frank -

Ha ha, I'm such a broken record!!! I drooled over the Beck 550 Spyder in the 1980's. 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, monster shaky-crazy versions at the Knott's Berry Farm Kit Car show. I always imagined that it was very plausible to drive one under a trailer (in an action movie, of course).

CarloSW2

Haha! While you're at it, I can't see why you couldn't rock a James Bond car plane (Roger Moore, tMWTGG) with a 550.

Like you'd even need more than a parasail.

Lot of bright folks on these forums. *Doesn't surprise me.

Here are my project notes, so far...

DIESEL SPIDER PROJECT
=================
goal: 100 MPG
=================

=====Engines=====
Rabbit diesel
1.6L from Quantum
1.8L*
2.0L 140HP TDI from '04-'05 Passa
Subaru boxer diesel (import)
VW Lupo 1.3L *(import)
Merc Smart Diesel (?)

=====Transaxles=====
5spd Passat FWD
From whatever car the engine is from

=====Radiators=====
motorcycle*
Griffin alum.
Scirocco

550 FORUM NOTES
=================

====TDIclub=====
MoT1, Pat Dolan, etc.
Yup, I'm running now with dual Honda rads in front of the front wheels, and it cools fine. I did a month-long, 8600 mile coast to coast trip in February this year.

RE: Kennedy Eng. -- Keep in mind that they offer the option of the 50 degree slant mounting as used in the Vanagon. You would need some Vanagon engine bits (oil pan, etc.) to make it work, but it would keep the engine low. That would work with either a swing or IRS Bug gearbox.

Another way to go full IRS would be with a VW water cooled gearbox. Transverse engine with a Rabbit/Golf/Jetta driveline (any series), or Quantum/Audi/Passat driveline for an in-line layout. More fab-work for sure, but the advantage to this would be 5 speed boxes and diesel-friendly ratios.

====Ecomodder=====
MoTheDiesel, basjoos
converted a 316 to 1.6L TDI from a Quantum. Used motorcycle radiators behind headlights.

====Samba=====
didget69, hstrecht65, BL3Manx
Rabbit diesel would fit Beetle transaxle with least trouble. *Need to fab exhaust & stash radiator somewhere.

The spider is small enough for a two cylinder diesel. I am sure you can get 100 mpg at 30 mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAr39...eature=related

Get a good drivetrain in there and I think 100mpg at 55 mph is possible.

UPDATE: thx for all the advice, guys. My spyder seller in AZ (T.Surdez) decided not to honor our (signed) bill of sale, so, for now, I'm looking for another 550 Spyder rolling chassis. In the meantime, I suppose I'll buy a few geo metros & goof around with those. I'll keep you all posted as soon as I find another budget Spyder.
~Nathan

Bummer. I love the Spyders, and it would have been cool to see one getting good MPG.

BTW, I think the Jetta uses a longitudinal FWD layout, so you might be able to swap the whole drivetrain in place of the ACVW one. If you're looking for older less computer-controlled stuff, older Audis (the 5000 for example) were longitudinal FWD as well.

The 914 transmission is already set up the correct way, of course, but I don't know offhand of any diesels that bolt right up to it. But you never know...

-soD

Gonna nab a few geo metros this weekend. I wonder if a kubota 3cyl diesel will fit in those things
;-)

diesel 550
 

I'm interested in building a diesel 550, adapters for the flipped ring gear trans axle are available, my thought was to use a complete engine and trans from a vw diesel and tranverse mount it to the 550 axle shafts. What is your progress ? any pictures?

@foolthrot... I got stiffed on the 550 spyder (seller reneged), so i bought a McLaren can-am replica; Manta Montage... from a niclear engineer. Also boight a 2003 NooBeetle TDI. I'm in Kansas City, now, coordinating the details. I got bored, so i made a movie about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuZaz...e_gdata_player

Comic book & action figures, coming soon.

Its alot like a Bradley GT. I hope you use the TDI transmission on not the air cooled transaxle.

It's a Manta body with a custom frame/chassis. The axel is orvette, modded to fit a porsche 914 manual trans. The nuke engineer included 2 914 transmissions, so I was planning to use one of fhose & a Kennedy Engineering adaptor. Will that work or do you suggest a better solution?

Check that the gearing is OK for the diesel. I would think the 914 trans is set up for higher RPMs and diesels operate at low RPMs. It would be quite a bit of fabrication to fit the TDI trans to the frame. Diesel will work with the 914 trans, just maybe not optimal on the highway.


http://www.914world.com/specs/regearing_901.php

The spread sheet shows 95 mph at 4291 rpm. The VW TDI makes maximum torque at 1900 RPM so cruse at should be around 1800 RPM, so this would be 1800/4291*95 = 40 mph. This is with 23 inch OD tires.

The Gulf TDI is at 1800 RPM at 65 MPH.

Thanks. Arc. I'm building it in stages. The 914 trans. is rated for the torque, but you're right; the ratios need to be taller. So far, i've found a few folks that can regear it. Haven't done much digging through the racing supply atores yet, but taller gears are probably available, off the shelf. Hopefully. Wish me luck ;-)

Taller gears are often quite expensive. You can invert the gear ratios by exchanging the drive and driven gears on the shafts, which can get you a few more ratios. But you're stuck on 2nd gear because it is a part of the main shaft, so you can't change it. And the gear sets that invert to nice 5th-gear ratios can be pretty expensive.

-soD