80-100mpge with Mercedes 300D Veggie/WVO Single Tank
 

I get around 22-24 mpg in my 300D on regular diesel

The other day I mixed 10 gal WVO + 3.077 gal of Diesel = 97.8 MPGe

(this is the mpg I actually pay for at the pump)


single tank system:
(weather never falls below 65F)

30 plate heat exchanger
inline fuel pump
glow plug heater (on a manual switch)

free waste veggie oil filtered to 1 micron



im glad i finally made this a reality

car is running good. i can go 60mph uphill which is a big plus for me

http://ecomodder.com/forum/emgarage-...da3ad77b06.JPG

Good way to go in your climate. Mine, B100 3 seasons, blend down to avoid gelling in winter.

Straight pipe..? :D they sound amazing on these.. It is a turbodiesel right

thanks. im not mixing with bio because i dont want my lines to degrade

turbo yes. straight pipe no. its loud enough already :p

That's "mpge" Doug! :p

thanks Frank, i wasnt familiar with the lingo

MPGe is correct!

just a few notes:

i installed everything myself

currently running on about 80% waste veggie oil

filtered oil is a must

clean filters are a must

if your car is bogging, one of your filters is probably clogged

a lot of the problems i had in the beginning was from a dirty gas tank
(its best to remove the tank strainer and clean it out as best as possible)
im still getting small things in my filter so i couldve done a better job

I use to have a 240d :turtle:, however it was difficult to start as is on the #2 stuff. Ive sen those kits,but imagined by time it paid for itself I would need to go ten thousand miles or so.

Whats the break even and pay back point on your system?

Right now Diesel is $4.50-5.50 in Hawaii

Ok, I'm a little confused
I thought to run waste veggie oil, that you had to refine it into biodiesel?

I had no idea you could simply take WVO and filter it and run it in your tank?

Is this the same as running new veggie oil in a separate tank (like the old greasel kits), where you dont turn on the veggie tank till the engine is warm, and then shut if off before you stop to avoid gelling in the engine?

Or do you run this WVO just like biodiesel?

Older engines like the low pressure Mercedes do ok, better if the VO fuel is heated. Newer engines like my VW need a thin fuel like biodiesel to run properly, but the OPs car has been know to do just fine on straight VO.

I really had no idea!

that is huge, in that you do not have spend the 70 cents or dollar or so for each gallon of WVO that you process into biodiesel

Not too mention the cost of building an appleseed or other biodiesel processor.

All you have to do is collect the WVO and then filter it and then pour it in your tank?

that is amazing, and I'm already looking on craigslist for an old mercedes diesel :thumbup:

Back when I was thinking about running bio or SVO I came to the conclusion that it was too expensive and too much trouble (chemicals and processing of bio and SVO is as expensive as diesel)

but this changes everything....

Even a newer HPCR Diesel can work with vegetable oil, but if it's pre-heated (then getting thinner) there are better results. By the way, since hydrogenated oils, which get even thicker when cold, are widely used in restaurants due to their longer useful life, it makes harder to use it pure, but are not a bad feedstock for biodiesel...

ive put about $500 into my system but im cheap, patient and do everything myself


around 4.60-4.70

yes, it is essentially the same idea as the greasel kit

those are 2 tank systems where you start/stop on diesel then switch to wvo when its warm

i dont run biodiesel because it will make my lines deteriorate

i would recommend older merc/vw cars and ford/dodge trucks to run on VO

its extremely difficult getting new cars to run on it though

the new Mercedes Bluetec doesnt even recommend biodiesel!


weather/temperature and quality of oil has EVERYTHING to do with it

the warmer the oil the better

the clearer the oil the better

I like the whole WVO thing but from what I've read (no first hand experience here) your maintenance cost can increase dramatically. The most susceptible components are the injection pump and injectors. Even in a good scenario injectors have to be cleaned, rebuilt pop tested and re balanced every year. Its easy if you have the equipment and know how. The injection pump is another animal all together. This is the most complex and expensive component on the engine and that WVO is flowing right through it at 2000psi. You better have very high confidence in your filtering and fuel heating ability nevermind the deposits that the WVO leaves behind.
Running WVO as a reliable long term fuel requires a big up front investment.

Autospeed article WVO

Or you can pour it in and do it for show to impress all your friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZX2BRdXkzA

I admire the people doing this, I'm all for it. I wish I had the time, space, resources to convert WVO into fuel but it doesn't make economic sense for me. Even free fuel isn't really free. I have burned used motor oil in my diesel after allowing it to settle for a month then filtering but this only represents a tiny fraction of all the diesel fuel I use.
Also I think its disengenuous to say you are getting 80-100mpg in your MB even with the qualifiers in your post. Even if you get the WVO for free you still spent time, storing and filtering the fuel.
cheers

nice article although it doesnt apply in this case since its about biodiesel.

good video too. the guy really shouldnt be using that car.

i am running a blend of wvo/diesel and i have 2 heaters and an additional fuel pump.

much better than my first car which was stock and ran on a 50/50 mix.



i have never had any problems with oil. its filtered down to 1 micron which is smaller than any stock fuel/oil filter out there. problems occur when your car isnt in great working order as it will find the chinks in your armor really fast.

bad glow plugs
dirty fuel tank
dirty fuel filters

You can make the car biodiesel compatible by replacing the fuel lines and o-rings that touch fuel with synthetic lines like viton. Most diesels fuel lines from 93 and up are compatible with biodiesel.

The green melted goo on this fuel injector is whats left of the viton fuel return lines purchased from the MB dealer a year ago. Viton, diesel fuel and heat don't mix.
http://i.imgur.com/xpceH.jpg

Not if you want it to last.

thats why i dont run biodiesel

its good but very corrosive and id rather not chance it

I drove my 240D for 6 years on B100, and I replaced only the tank lines and injector return lines once, with Viton. Never a problem after that.

Let me correct one point you made, biodiesel is not "corrosive". It is a very effective solvent, and it will dissolve natural and synthetic rubbers. But the Mercedes inline pumps and steel injectors are extremely durable, and Viton is very effective line material. I re-sealed my VW TDI pump with it and it handles B100 and pump diesel in any concentration.

i agree


personally the thing that ive noticed is that since biodiesel is such a strong solvent it will find any old/failing part and chip away at it until it does fail.

these cars have enough gremlins as it is and i dont want to chase more of them

I like the idea, but never got around to it. My benz had 475 thousand original miles and power train. THe trunk was rusted out and the passenger side door was dificult to shut unless you lifted it. Both front seat frames were partlly rusted through the floor as the fire wall leaked and a few body drains or plugs were plugged. It served my father well and he parked it for a year before he gave it to me. I drove it 6 months and had to use the little grey bottle of stuff and starter fluid to start it up. Frankly the last week I owned that car I left it running as to start it took 15 minutes. Nothing like seeing smoke out the back, oil psi, but the engine wont catch. I feared using too much starter fluid would screw up the engine.

Having said that I was fine getting 32 mpg in a full size sedan that kept up with traffic on i95. :eek:

people tell me youre not supposed to use starting fluid on a diesel

(chances are it wont help anyway)


its usually compression or fuel related (line, filters, plugs)

pic update

http://ecomodder.com/forum/emgarage-...da3ad77b06.JPG

4 gal WVO + 1.073 gal of Diesel = 92.26 MPGe

So in MPG, that breaks down to 18.18? :eek: My 240d got 32 MPG without even trying.

19.5 actually ;)

32? maybe with a manual :p

mine is an auto

300Ds usually get 20-25 depending

got 22mpg the other day

it really depends on what type of driving i do

5 gal WVO + 1 gal of Diesel = 133 MPGe

or 22.17 mpg



ive used 60 gallons of veggie oil so far

total saving based off current diesel price of $4.30

$258

Your claim of 80-100mpg puts a lot of people off. Its a straight lie and you know it. You can try to justify it any way you want to but the fact remains that you're only getting 22mpg. Whether that fuel comes from a diesel pump or a restaurant is irrelevant. The long term costs of running SVO far outweigh any savings at the diesel pump. I hope you enjoy rebuilding the injection pump, injectors, replacement fuel filters, clogged fuel lines, combustion chamber deposits etc. Its not a matter of if but WHEN it will leave you on the side of the road with a huge repair bill.

Guess which injector has been running on single tank WVO?
http://i.imgur.com/g1GGD.jpg

More WVO fun
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/atta...o-injector.jpg

And while we're at it, you should read this.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=186108

lol, you sure do make a lot of negative posts

http://iforce.co.nz/i/yhjurbcy.bkh.gif

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8098/55599.gif

His cost per mile is still low . . . and not all users of WVO are inept.
 

I would challenge your claim that using WVO WILL cause failure of components. It would be better said that poorly conceived and executed WVO systems can cause component failure. Choosing the right vehicle is the most important step. Inline injection pumps as found in early Mercedes are an advantage. Proper filtration, heating and vehicle maintenance will provide you with an economical and reliable mode of transport.

There is of course an investment in equipment and time. But depending on your driving needs, the payback can be tremendous.

I drive considerably more than most people. I travel between San Diego and the Palm Springs area two to three times a week. I burned through almost 800 gallons of WVO in my 1985 190D 5 speed manual Mercedes, non-turbo last year. Diesel hovers around $4 dollars a gallon here. Do the math. I did. That old beater of a car paid for my family vacation to the Caribbean this past summer.

I bought the car for 700 dollars years ago - rescued from the insurance auction when it was rear-ended at 70K miles. It has been running on WVO ever since. It now has traveled approximately 650k miles. Fuel filters are changed along with my oil change. Glow plugs and injectors are changed/rebuilt every two years. Nothing untoward. Mild water/methanol injection keeps the pre-chambers and injectors clean.

The WVO is settled, filtered to 20 microns then centrifuged in an industrial centrifuge which cost me about 1000 dollars years ago. About 10% by volume of regular unleaded gasoline and diesel is blended in to provide fluidity and to pay my share of the road taxes.

This car represents only 1 of 4 Mercedes diesels in my immediate family that run on our sources of WVO though not to the mileage of the 190D.

Is WVO effective for everyone? No. But it is a winning source of Bio Crude for me to run my Benz on.

Can someone please explain to me how he is able to acheive that big of a difference in mpg with WVO compared to regular diesel when WVO has less energy density than diesel? The science just doesn't match his claim.

Energy density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or is he factoring that he only used 3 gallons of store diesel into his mpg calculation?

I agree, theres a big difference between what he's doing and a proper WVO or biodiesel setup. Single tank WVO where he's not factoring in any other costs is the definition of a poorly conceived and executed system. Simply heating and filtering fuel is not enough and he knows it. I guess some people only learn the hard way.

I've gone through the same process you describe and one step further to create real biodiesel through transesterification. It was a fun project and the car ran fine on it but its not worth it for me to produce in small batches. For other it is and I'm all for that. Good quality bio diesel can actually increase the life of the injection pump and injectors.
He's pretending WVO is magical free fuel so he's not counting those gallons into his calculation.

I can see why this is so tempting especially in Hawaii where diesel fuel is about $1 more per gallon than gasoline. But the long term costs of running single tank WVO far outweigh any savings.

you should read the whole thread

i clearly differentiate MPG and MPGe



i get my oil for FREE and it is properly filtered and dewatered to 1 micron

that goes into an on board fuel system which has 2 more filters and 2 heating elements
(not counting the 3rd filter in the tank and the 3rd heating element being the engine)

Hawaii also rarely gets colder than 70F

22mpg from 5 gallons WVO with one gallon of diesel mixed in sounds reasonable to me. Alohaspirit may not have been exact in stating his assumptions, but it looks like you are making some that are not justified. He is not making unreasonable mileage claims, but perhaps only a misunderstanding in MPGe.

The indirect injection of the OM616/OM617 is quite robust. It operates at low pressure, can deal with highly viscous fuel, and due to the prechamber has very few issues with partially combusted fuel getting into the rings. With diligent oil changes, this engine is head and shoulders above modern direct injection engines with regard to fuel tolerance, and is extremely easy and inexpensive to service as a result.

VO is an excellent choice for a Hawaiian W123, it loves the VO, the climate is perfect and biodiesel ingredients are more expensive than elsewhere in the US.

My 190D has a single tank system.
 

It boils down to so many factors. My 190D is an extreme example of WVO performing for long periods of time (580k miles) because of its inherent robust design, my choice of oil sources and fastidious cleaning and a custom electric/fluid heating system. The water injection helps too. All on a single tank system.

But this vehicle is used between a semi tropical coastal city and a desert city - no snow days.

And I was not referring to AlohaSpirit as an example of inept WVO application - the TDI owner in the link above was. Again, choose a diesel with an inline pump as the basis for your WVO setup. Other pumps can run WVO but the margin for error is small. Know the limits of your oil stock and the weather conditions you operate in. Design your fuel system to work accordingly.

And if AlohaSpirit wants to calculate his mileage as he does, so be it. Chevy gets to set the Volts mileage based on only the gasoline it uses in a time period. Cost per mile is a good analysis reference.

Again, WVO is not for everybody. But it is an economical advantage for me. And it can be an educational experience for others negating the disadvantages via the fun factor.