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91 civic si
OK, some of you guys may have seen my other car thread "The Joker"
Within the next week and 1/2 or so I will be buying a 1991 Honda civic si hatchback! While I know it is not the most fuel efficient vehicle, I came across it for less than $1000.... My dad's friend owns a wrecking yard and it was repossessed. So that's a big win for me! I know a lot about the D series Honda engines, however I don't know much about the B series engines, other than they make a "lot" of power , at least compared to the other options Honda has. This car does have a b-series in it, by looking at the picture he sent me, can any of you tell which engine it is? http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psa7ec1a84.jpg |
It could be a B18B (integra ls) as it does not have VTEC. But because it looks like factory engine mounts and not moved from original location I bet it is one of the ZC motors from the D series (early integra).
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There looks to be a sticker of some kind on the boss where the engine type stamp lives. Take another pic, just to the left of the exhaust manifold, further down. There's a flat boss on the engine case that should have a stamped engine type on it.
It's definitely a swap; the US-spec 91 Si came with the D16A6 motor originally, which is SOHC. -soD |
That's a dohc ls swap you could do a drop out and sell it for the car price most likely.
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It was a Canadian car
I know it looks just like the b18 in the 96 integra And if I'm not mistaken the zc valve covers don't have the horazontal lines on them |
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Ah, the DOHC ZC appears to have raised areas fore-and-aft across its valve cover!
http://spiritofgrip.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/zc.jpg So yeah, I'm betting a B18. Possibly a B16? A look at the boss on the front side of the motor would tell. -soD |
I am glad to know its not the zc... if it is the b 18 I plan on installing some adjustable can gears, chip the ecu and see how much mileage I can squeek out of this thing! The car is in elpaso.. if I get it I will be going down there next weekend! Hopefully
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not the B16 or B18C. Those have VTEC cast onto the valve cover and a cover over the spark plugs. It does look like a B block. I'm just surprised the mounts look original. I thought B blocks needed to custom mounts in that generation. Also looks to small to be the larger B20 or F blocks.
Probably a B18B from the 96+ Integra LS. |
Sorry, it took so long to get back on here! but i got the car for $1000! here it is.
I drove it home from Elpaso to Lubbock and got 27 mpg the first half of the trip. 31 the second half. (75-85mph then 50-65) It does have some issues... third gear is COMPLEEATLY gone... trans rebuild kit is $275. might slap in a higher final drive gear in it while Im in it. It has a Hondata ecu :D Skunk2 Pro intake manifold (factory throttle body) 4-2-1 header (should help low end torque) It is a B18B1 HELP!!! I don't know what trans it has!!! the I.D. sticker is gone :( i know it is a cable trans. a y80 or s80 come factory on a b18b1, but there hydro... the YS1 is cable... but I am lost. :( http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psbb2dbebf.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psfd32842e.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0c479b5f.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5324f1db.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps17dc1227.jpg |
The early Integra B18s used cable clutches, you could have the trans from one of those.
You'd know if you had a YS1, you'd be spinning 4000 RPMs at 65 MPH. (I may be exaggerating, but probably not by a lot!) They were intended for the very high-revving B16 VTEC motors. I'm not sure how easy a final-drive swap would be. You have to use B-series parts, though--the D-series stuff is not compatible. So no HF final drive or gears for you. -soD |
I will double check tonight, but I am almost certain that is around 3400 at 65
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Sorry it has taken me a while to get back on here... here are the "ratios" I don't have a clue how to figure out what trans it has without pulling it apart!!!! but I have to order the rebuild kit BEFORE I tear it down...
1st @ 4k ~19mph 2nd @4k ~32mph 3rd @ any rpm 0mph (grinding sounds) 4th @ 4k ~65mph 5th @ ~3000 is 70mph This dosent match up with any cabe trans I have found :( |
This seems like a "high" geared b series trans, witch doesn't make any scene....
First and second match up with the JDM J1, However 4th and 5th are WAY higher... |
Bump for much needed help :(
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It probably doesn't match up because you have aftermarket wheels and tires that aren't factory sized. If you are trying to figure out your gear ratio based on RPM and speed in a certain gear, and comparing that to factory specs, you need to be using a tire with the diameter of the factory equipped tire. If you measure the diameter of your tire, compare it to the diameter of the factory equipped size, then use that difference as the percentage of correction for your results, you will have a better chance of figuring out what gear ratio you have.
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Thank you for the input, I looked into it.
The Factory size ia a 185/60/14 Mine are 195/55/15 that is only 3.1% off. If im not mistaken, this would make it even longer geared... This is the speed diffrece chart. http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tir...195x55xR15.png |
Hmmm, ok. Sorry, I saw the wheels and that was my first guess. Man I got nothin' at this point, hopefully someone else can help you out ha ha
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As to what you've got, I really don't know. -soD |
From what I understand there's no way to tell Honda gear ratios by transmission id numbers. Best way is with the transmission out and putting it in gear. And count the revolutions of the input shaft spinning versus the output shaft. Requires some added math. You could possibly do it on the car by putting it in gear and counting the revolutions of the flywheel or balancer versus the trans output/ axle
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There is a post on hondatech on how to Id one you could have a custom trans. Some hf gears in a si case for quick launch and good economy. I've seen it.
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Rusty, That is possible. The gears match up with the 94+ integra LS (hydraulic trans)
This car has a cable trans that only came in integras 90-93, but is geared completely different. I know that the 93 Transmission Internals can be interchanged with the 94+ internals, but I don't think the other years can... The motor (B18b1) came out of a 94+ LS Trans 90-93... (gears seem to match up with the 94+) Ecu 90-93... It might just be a custom gear set or the ls but it is soon to be my only car so i have to figure it out ASAP In the USA there are no factory honda cable trans geared that high. I am worried it is JDM |
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Cripes lol. Ok so if the speed is provided by GPS, and the tach is correct, then the tire size still doesn't matter, just like if the speedo was working, even though the speedo would have been reading a correct (to it) but inaccurate speed? I think. Geez I'm getting a headache.
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Okay guy's I am back! Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you... I have had more stuff come up than you can imagine.
But it's all good! I spent around $800 and had the transmission of fully rebuilt. Within the next few weeks I will be getting a check for $1200. So here's the plan. I want to swap in a lean burn d15.. As a way to keep the cable clutch I could stick with a HF trans, I found one for $300 and a only 95,000 miles. But I don't know what all I need... most ppl do the opposite of this swap.. Will I need anything other than the motor, trans, Factory Motor mounts engine wiring harness, PO 7 ECU. And factory axles? |
Gota convert it to obd1. You can get conversion harnesses but some custom wiring is going to have to be done. Others who have done this swap or any obd0-obd1 swap will know best
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But a buddy of mine just pulled it, and it is a direct swap. the only problem is, it is dpfi, mine is mpfi. so my options are, swap to mpfi and get a new ecu, and intake manifold. or redo/get a new wiring harness. |
Personally, I wouldn't fix what isn't broken.
But if you do want to convert this thing over to get better mileage you have many options to choose from. D15Z1, D16Y5 are the two that come to mind the quickest.. The Y5 will be the more powerful of the two engines but is an OBD2 engine. Thankfully, honda is awesome about their interchangability and you can run OBD1 as well. Which will be more simple to swap with the wiring. The D15B6 is still a neat little engine but with rebuild parts diminishing (rod bearings are discontinued) and only 62hp it just doesn't mount up to the other two guy IMO. Before you go spending $400 on a single cam engine that more than likely has mileage well into the six digit area (Not to mention if its DPFI its a 1.5liter engine D15B2 that isn't known for its pep or mileage) you may want to explore your other options. If I had that kind of money to spend I'd look into buying a JDM D15B VTEC engine.. 3 stages of Vtec which can be run with a chipped P72 ECU so that you can get the best of both worlds in power and economy. 130hp and 50+mpg.. Makes me want to sell my setup and go this route.. lol Whatever you do, definately stick with MPFI and OBD1. It has the most support for tuning and is the most common for the wiring swaps. The intake manifolds are interchangable btw.. |
I found the intake manifold from a d15b7, and the obd1 ecu, for $50 so that should get me into obd1 and mpfi for next to no cost! :)
that is if i can get it to work. |
Good luck! :)
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Ok sweet! Good news fellas! I have everything on its way, along with a little surprise!
It is a CRX HF trans on a d15b7 with obd0 injectors and disy. So no conversion needed for me!! (I will still probably swap to obd1 for other reasons though.) AND, I threw together a kammback that will also incorporate a rear corner airflow trip feature. It may be about a month until this is under production, but with some CAD (cardboard aided design) tried to get a general idea. My dads body shop has a few roles of carbon fiber/ kevlar weave, so.... the final piece will weigh next to nothing!!! Let me know what you guys think!! http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psbe29a233.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psb0f189fe.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps099b85b4.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps19b72b39.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps37edadfd.jpg |
I'm sorry but its been awhile since I've updated this, I've been busy house shopping. My move in date is May 29th!I realized that my cars fan was wired on the ignition switch, so now I set it up to where it is on a temperature switch and the fan only turns on after a 185 degrees.
when I get off work tonight I will be updating this some more with pictures! |
Let me elaborate on the ignition switch idea, anytime the key is on the fan would be on. I have had some wiring bugs, but I have sorted them out for the most part. Here are some of the pictures of what I did.
This is how much crap wiring I removed, along with 2 non-functioning relays. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1b6bed03.jpg Here is the temp probe poking through the radiator. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psdaba9b28.jpg I reused the the factory fan plug for easy removal. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psc990e9cd.jpg I mounted the new relay behind the headlight on a factory bolt. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps17c14b48.jpg Also, I have been playing with the idea of killing 2 cylinders while cruising ( not while idling or accelerating) My car runs OBD0 so I only have 1 o2 sensor, and because I have tubular headers the o2 sensor only reads cylinder 3. so I do not have to worry about it trying to richen the mixture, because 2&3 are not affected. If I kill 1 & 4. This is the firing order http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6a6ac89b.jpg When I disconnect 1 and 4 it remains balanced, and will idle and run (slightly rough at an idle) and will sloooooowly get me up to 75mph without a problem. above 2000 rpm you can not feel/here the dead cylinders. Also, it will pull small hills without a problem. You do have to have a more aggressive throttle position, but that is to be expected with half the effective displacement. By shifting the load of all 4 to just #2&3 (by deactivating them) to the remaining cylinders should operate under higher higher effective compression ratios. Does this sound like it would work ok? As a way to avoid the CEL, I will not be simply "Cutting the power" to the injectors, I plan on making the go to an alternate circuit with a ~6ohm resistor to fool the ecu to saying the injector is firing. Any feedback would be awesome and appreciated! |
Well, I guess people Aren't that interested in my civic/thread...
Nonetheless! I will keep this thing updated. I am off work tomorrow so I will be wiring in the injector kill switch. This is my diagram of how I plan on fooling the ECU into saying the injectors are "firing" sorry, I am not an artist, or good with diagrams :P http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psb700ee8b.jpg |
It works!!!!!
IT WORKS!!!!!!!!
Awesome news ! My cylinder management system actually works! <object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hjAGmZx-lyc?hl=en_US&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hjAGmZx-lyc?hl=en_US&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object> Variable displacement experiment. 91 Civic Si B18 - YouTube The first thing that I did was checked the resistance of my injectors. They were all between 2.4 and 2.6 ohms. (92 - 95 should be around 8 ohms FYI) it being that I could not find any 2.5 Ohm resistors that could handle more than 1/4 watt of power I wired four 1/2 watt 10 Ohm resistors in parallel, which yields a final resistance of 2.5 ohms. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psb0f0ae12.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5fc499eb.jpg The next thing that I did was remove the plug from injector one and unplugged the two plugs in the wiring harness that go to the injectors. (see next picture) The green one goes to the resistor box (nonexistent in 92-95 Hondas) the large white plug is where you test what wire goes to where. They are also color coded, I always check with a volt meter to be certain before I go cutting the wiring harness. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0b5ad4e2.jpg To make sure that this would fool the computer, and to prevent myself from wasting a few hours of wire in something that would not work; I simply put the resistor directly on the cut wires and completely bypass the injector. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps45054d59.jpg I went in the car turned the key and to my amazement it started with no check engine light!!! Granted, it did run a little rough or in just three cylinders Lol.. Now, it was just time to wire it all in! To make the alternate circuit I used a DPDT switch from radio shack (On-Off-On) I was hoping to find a DPST On-On switch, but it is just as easy to skip the center of position. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5659178a.jpg On this style switch there are six terminals. The three on the left and the three on the right are completely independent of one another(one circuit for each injector) On the upper two terminals I connected the resistors and spliced into the constant power to injectors 1 & 4 The middle terminal I connected to the ecu side of the injector ground wire (brown in the first picture) And on the lower terminals connected to the injector side of the ground wire (brown in the first picture) As a side note the wire color for cylinder number four is yellow. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps229c2251.jpg Listed tools and items needed • Resistors equal to resistance of injectors (2.5 ohm in 88-91 civic 8 ohm in 92-95) ~$4* • Soldering iron with Souder • Good wire (12-18 gauge, I used about 30 feet....) ~$6* • Heat shrink ~$4* • Wire cutters/ strippers • 1 DPDT On-Off-On switch (Or a DPST On-On switch) ~$4* * cost is assumed if buying new. Most people who do wiring should have all of these with the exception to the switch and possibly resistors, all I purchase were the resistors and the switch. |
Not to spam the board, but can anyone think of a way to make this transition automated? that would be the next logical step.
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Let's see some fuel economy improvement figures from your cylinder management circuit, first.
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Motor swap!!!!
As an update, on the variable displacement. it didn't work as well as hoped.. I gained about 1.3 mpg.. not enough to be worth the risk to the engine, and the added trouble.
However, I have better news!!!! I just finished swapping back to d series with a CRX HF trans, And I was paid to do it!! My buddy has a 1991 civic dx with a d15b1. Me and him worked out a trade to where we trade ECU's, wiring harnesses, motor mounts, axles, shift linkages , and he pays for everything, and buys me the crx hf trans. the reason it was worthwhile to him is because he wanted by b18b1. here are some pics! The hf trans http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps89f81d08.jpg My motor http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0de701d2.jpg My engine bay http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psa3bb0980.jpg Lowering it in http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps56a6b169.jpg Hell... *cough* wiring http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psa5244517.jpg His engine http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...psd16b7ac7.jpg We took the valve cover off the b18 and look how clean this thing is!!! this is after I have had it for + 15k miles and it needed an oil change! http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps787ad796.jpg here is my prototype kambak... the angle is to steep, I made it with some spare fiberglass. i wanted to test it with glass before I use my Kevlar. http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps31428f0c.jpg http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/...ps03df518f.jpg |
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