EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   Aerodynamics (https://ecomodder.com/forum/aerodynamics.html)
-   -   AirFlow StarShip Initial Reveal (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/airflow-starship-initial-reveal-35659.html)

Shepherd777 09-21-2017 05:51 PM

AirFlow StarShip Initial Reveal
 
Okay, so I haven't exactly completed the real truck yet, but that will happen soon. In the interim, here are a couple of articles and images of a scale model of the new truck that I am building.

http://rotella.shell.com/starship/_j...r-nologos.jpeg

http://www.overdriveonline.com/wp-co...11-768x432.jpg

http://www.ccjdigital.com/wp-content...23-768x432.jpg

Shell Rotella unveils futuristic tractor-trailer concept

Shell Rotella's Starship concept rig could see cross-country efficiency run in early 2018 | Overdrive - Owner Operators Trucking Magazine

How did I do???

Daschicken 09-21-2017 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shepherd777 (Post 550667)
okay, so i haven't exactly completed the real truck yet, but that will happen soon. In the interim, here are a couple of articles and images of the new truck that i am building.

How did i do???

you dun goofed son!


Just kidding. :thumbup: Looking good, make it happen! Eager to see these things on the roads, replacing the other trucks out there.

samwichse 09-21-2017 09:09 PM

How is the filler between the can and the trailer going to work? Inflatible? Sliding plates somehow? Will it be possible to use it with a standard trailer with all aero in place?

So many questions...

Shepherd777 09-21-2017 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samwichse (Post 550690)
How is the filler between the cab and the trailer going to work? Inflatible? Sliding plates somehow? Will it be possible to use it with a standard trailer with all aero in place?

So many questions...

The rear of cab to trailer is an active aerodynamic, pneumatic mechanical origami-type device that articulates. It is constructed from aluminum tubes and sheet aluminum panels. It keys off a signal in our custom digital dash to deploy at 45 mph and it stows at 40 mph so the tractor and trailer can articulate. So at any speed below 40 mph, we have the standard gap between the tractor and the trailer. At 45 mph and above, it closes that gap.

Yes, it would work with a standard trailer as the device is cab-mounted. But a standard trailer with the StarShip tractor would just be a waste of fuel.



.

ennored 09-21-2017 09:59 PM

Different and they weren't nearly as good, but still reminds of Penske's trucks from years ago.https://16thandgeorgetown.files.word...ske_racing.jpg

Shepherd777 09-21-2017 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ennored (Post 550693)
Different and they weren't nearly as good, but still reminds of Penske's trucks from years ago.https://16thandgeorgetown.files.word...ske_racing.jpg

Nothing about that Penske truck is really analogous to my new truck. But it was very similar to my first truck 35 years ago. The gap between the tractor and trailer of the Penske rig was very close, but it did not mechanically close. So the driver had to be very careful. The windshield and front end were flat. And Larry Shinoda, the designer of the 1963 Corvette and the Boss Mustang who designed that rig for Mr. Penske, did it 3 years after I built my first aerodynamic truck.

My 1983 prototype is shown below.
http://www.airflowtruck.com/wp-conte...7/05/HDT-2.jpg

COcyclist 09-21-2017 10:59 PM

Cool! Subscribed.

samwichse 09-21-2017 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepherd777 (Post 550692)
The rear of cab to trailer is an active aerodynamic, pneumatic mechanical origami-type device that articulates. It is constructed from aluminum tubes and sheet aluminum panels. It keys off a signal in our custom digital dash to deploy at 45 mph and it stows at 40 mph so the tractor and trailer can articulate. So at any speed below 40 mph, we have the standard gap between the tractor and the trailer. At 45 mph and above, it closes that gap.

Cool. I'd like to see that in action. Sounds sci-fi...
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepherd777 (Post 550692)
Yes, it would work with a standard trailer as the device is cab-mounted. But a standard trailer with the StarShip tractor would just be a waste of fuel.

Well, I mean, not a complete waste if you're taking care of a lot of the from aero ugliness. Haulers gotta haul the trailer they draw sometimes :).

Sam

Xist 09-22-2017 12:20 AM

What is this? A semi for ants? How can we be expected to transport goods efficiently if they can’t even fit inside the truck? I don’t wanna hear your excuses! The tractor has to be at least three times bigger than this!

kach22i 09-22-2017 10:32 AM

Battle of the Bulge (1965) "King Tiger"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4j4iq-hN_8

Very nice model, it proves that the Germans are still the world's finest toy makers.............:D

Just kidding, I would love to see that on the road as soon as possible. :thumbup:

Xist 09-22-2017 02:32 PM

Shepherd, do you ever have people say "You know that doesn't make a difference, right?"

I know people have told me that, but I have never done much ecomodding, although I would bet gas money that if I made a boat tail, people would tell me it did not work, and I could say "Hold on, this is my gas log, here is my performance in the Green Grand Prix, and here I am in a wind tunnel..."

"Whatever. You know that doesn't work."

Seriously, though, you have outdone yourself again! :)

freebeard 09-22-2017 05:24 PM

Finally!

Please be as verbose as you like about this. Like, do the tractor rear skirts hinge at the rear vertical edge and slide forward on the inside of a corner?

Quote:

...an active aerodynamic, pneumatic mechanical origami-type device that articulates.
Slide or pivot?

What does the tail look like? Any plasma actuators?

basjoos 09-22-2017 06:06 PM

It'll be interesting to see if this rig produces less turbulence behind it and kicks up less water spray than a conventional rig.

Shepherd777 09-23-2017 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 550704)
What is this? A semi for ants? How can we be expected to transport goods efficiently if they can’t even fit inside the truck? I don’t wanna hear your excuses! The tractor has to be at least three times bigger than this!

I hear you, but this is not vaporware. I have a full sized one, it's just not finished.

Shepherd777 09-23-2017 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 550769)
Shepherd, do you ever have people say "You know that doesn't make a difference, right?"

I know people have told me that, but I have never done much ecomodding, although I would bet gas money that if I made a boat tail, people would tell me it did not work, and I could say "Hold on, this is my gas log, here is my performance in the Green Grand Prix, and here I am in a wind tunnel..."

"Whatever. You know that doesn't work."

Seriously, though, you have outdone yourself again! :)

Thanks for the kind words.

Shepherd777 09-23-2017 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 550782)
Finally!

Please be as verbose as you like about this. Like, do the tractor rear skirts hinge at the rear vertical edge and slide forward on the inside of a corner?

Slide or pivot?

What does the tail look like? Any plasma actuators?

The carbon fiber rear tractor skirts are both hinged and have horizontal sliders as well. The hinges are on top end of the skirts. We have race car panel buttons on the outside of the skirts that we simply push to unlock the panels from their skirt hangers. We then slide the whole skirt outward 4" on the sliders until they meet fixed stops, then lift the skirt up over the hangers. We needed the 4" of travel on the sliders so the skirt would clear the trailer when it was connected to the tractor. Without the sliders, we would not be able to open the skirts past the 90 degree opening point.

The mechanical tractor to trailer gap sealer on the rear bulkhead of the cab is very similar to the boat-tail below. But it has one continuous top panel in 3 sections, as opposed to the 2 separate panels on the trailer, as there are no doors on the rear of the cab.

I have an amazingly cool video of the gap sealer working in Augmented Reality (AR) that I cannot share yet, unfortunately. When we tweak the AR some more for accuracy, I'll be hopefully able to post it here.

We have been talking with the plasma folks for a couple of years now, but it's not ready for prime time yet.

The trailer boat-tail is an active aerodynamic, 4 panel WABCO unit that they custom built for us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPRizDvVTvo

It is stock except we had them extend the side panels downward to the top edge of the horizontal impact protection bar (bumper) at the rear of the trailer. So we basically have a laminar flow that is not interrupted from the rear trailer skirts to the boat-tail, unlike almost everyone else. They are pneumatically operated and currently open at 40 mph and stow at 10 mph, keyed off of the WABCO stability control and ABS computer on the trailer. We may tweak those mph settings.

As you can see from the images below, Strick built this trailer for me without any light cut-outs in the rear stainless steel door frame. We have 24" wide, 1" tall DOT approved LED taillights, mounted inside of that rear impact protection bar. When the boat-tail is stowed or deployed, a vehicle behind the trailer can still see the taillights and that conspicuity tape.

https://vgy.me/lxiYqd.jpg

The top panels are in the stowed position while we install the full-length side panels.
https://vgy.me/rSNouM.jpg

Shepherd777 09-23-2017 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basjoos (Post 550787)
It'll be interesting to see if this rig produces less turbulence behind it and kicks up less water spray than a conventional rig.

There will be astronomically less splash and spray with this rig over a conventional truck.

freebeard 09-23-2017 02:07 PM

Thanks. My imagination will have to substitute for the Photobucket place holders.

Tractor wheelbase is essentially equal to a conventional cab?

When are you going to update that avatar pic?

rmay635703 09-23-2017 03:45 PM

Now you need to apply your tech to diesel motor homes

Shepherd777 09-23-2017 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 550840)
Thanks. My imagination will have to substitute for the Photobucket place holders.

Tractor wheelbase is essentially equal to a conventional cab?

When are you going to update that avatar pic?

Sorry, I forgot about those idiots at Photobucket.

Copy that on the wheelbase.

Soon.

aerohead 09-30-2017 03:35 PM

StarShip
 
Cover the highways with 'em Bob!
It's disruptive technology and I like it!
'hope the marketplace more than rewards you for your effort.:thumbup:

niky 10-02-2017 05:30 AM

Massive! Fantastic work, both on the old and new truck!

Shepherd777 10-07-2017 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerohead (Post 551497)
Cover the highways with 'em Bob!
It's disruptive technology and I like it!
'hope the marketplace more than rewards you for your effort.:thumbup:

Hey Phil -

Thanks for the kind words.

Here's a couple more rendered images from our Augmented Reality program.

https://vgy.me/dyKZ4n.jpeg

seifrob 10-08-2017 12:09 PM

It looks awwsome. Sorry for probably stupid question ( my closest experience with trucking is from playing few times 18 wheels of steel PC game, so negligible). I was living under impression that most of the owners-operators owns just a rig and tows whatever their contractor needs to haul.
Your setup seems to give best results with tractor+trailer combo. So how is it? Do truckers usually own both tractor and trailer or not? What performance do you expect with standard trailer? Have you tested tractor alone? Do you plan something for flatbeds, too? Inflatable boat-tail?

Shepherd777 10-08-2017 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seifrob (Post 552016)
It looks awwsome. Sorry for probably stupid question ( my closest experience with trucking is from playing few times 18 wheels of steel PC game, so negligible). I was living under impression that most of the owners-operators owns just a rig and tows whatever their contractor needs to haul.
Your setup seems to give best results with tractor+trailer combo. So how is it? Do truckers usually own both tractor and trailer or not? What performance do you expect with standard trailer? Have you tested tractor alone? Do you plan something for flatbeds, too? Inflatable boat-tail?

Thanks. This is an integrated prototype concept vehicle, not an owner operator vehicle. One must have an integrated aerodynamic unit, with components that work in harmony with each other, for the best aerodynamics and fuel efficiency.

Many owner operators in the U.S. lease to a large carrier, operate under the carriers authority, and use the carriers trailer. Many other owner operators lease to a large carrier and use their own trailer. And a lot of owner operators have their own operating authority and own all of the equipment.

This tractor will never be hooked up to standard trailer. We are striving for the best Class 8 truck fuel efficiency in the world, and a standard trailer would only detract from that.

We have not tested anything yet. We are currently wrapping up the build.

Flatbed versions, or an inflatable boat-tail, are not in the cards.

freebeard 10-08-2017 06:07 PM

Car Hacker's Handbook

Have you done a threat assessment on your onboard systems?

Quote:

The Car Hacker’s Handbook will give you a deeper understanding of the computer systems and embedded software in modern Â*vehicles. It begins by examining vulnerabilities and providing detailed explanations of communications over the CAN bus and Â*between devices and systems.

Then, once you have an understanding of a Â*vehicle’s communication network, you’ll learn how to Â*intercept data and perform specific hacks to track vehicles, unlock doors, glitch engines, flood communication, and more. With a focus on low-cost, open source hacking tools such as Metasploit, Wireshark, Kayak, can-utils, and Â*ChipWhisperer, The Car Hacker’s Handbook will show you how to:

Build an accurate threat model for your vehicle
Reverse engineer the CAN bus to fake engine signals
Exploit vulnerabilities in diagnostic and data-logging systems
Hack the ECU and other firmware and embedded systems
Feed exploits through infotainment and vehicle-to-vehicle communication systems
Override factory settings with performance-tuning techniques
Build physical and virtual test benches to try out exploits safely

If you’re curious about automotive security and have the urge to hack a two-ton computer, make The Car Hacker’s Handbook your first stop.


seifrob 10-09-2017 01:41 PM

Thanks for the answers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepherd777 (Post 552032)
/snip/
We have not tested anything yet. We are currently wrapping up the build.
/snip/

- I am aware of it, but iirc you did extensive CFD testing and that was on my mind. I should probably express myself more clearly. But as you said there is no intention to separate the combo, i assume no cfd study for the truck alone.
Best regards

rob

Shepherd777 10-11-2017 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 552038)
Car Hacker's Handbook

Have you done a threat assessment on your onboard systems?

No, not of the onboard systems. But I have done a threat assessment of the outside of the truck systems, so I run with a .45 ACP and a German shepherd.

Shepherd777 10-11-2017 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seifrob (Post 552074)
Thanks for the answers.

- I am aware of it, but iirc you did extensive CFD testing and that was on my mind. I should probably express myself more clearly. But as you said there is no intention to separate the combo, i assume no cfd study for the truck alone.
Best regards

rob

We had an aerodynamicist from Honda R&D in Torrence, CA do CFD simulations of the complete truck, and the final version came out to 0.25 Cd, believe it or not.

freebeard 10-11-2017 04:28 PM

Now, if you could do something about the frontal area.... :)

Shepherd777 10-11-2017 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 552217)
Now, if you could do something about the frontal area.... :)

Yeah, I hear you. But us truckers are all stuck with dragging a rectangular box, 13'6" high and 102" wide that people want to put freight inside.

grins2go_brett 10-11-2017 06:39 PM

Wish I had more pull at the Arizona Trucking Association for you. But alas, I am the photographer who works with them once a year for a 3 day conference. So my influence is very low. I would love for you to be able to get your truck (when it's completed) in front of the companies out here...especially Swift and Knight.

elhigh 10-11-2017 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepherd777 (Post 552204)
We had an aerodynamicist from Honda R&D in Torrence, CA do CFD simulations of the complete truck, and the final version came out to 0.25 Cd, believe it or not.

0.25!

Hot damn!

Shepherd777 10-12-2017 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grins2go_brett (Post 552236)
Wish I had more pull at the Arizona Trucking Association for you. But alas, I am the photographer who works with them once a year for a 3 day conference. So my influence is very low. I would love for you to be able to get your truck (when it's completed) in front of the companies out here...especially Swift and Knight.

Thanks, but that's not necessary. We'll be at all of the shows next year and all of the carriers will see it. And by virtue of my build customer, we'll have extensive worldwide press and exposure.

windshadow 10-25-2017 10:58 AM

All that work on the front and side skirts. I wonder what they did on the back?

ctmaybury@yahoo.com 10-25-2017 11:54 AM

What kind of mileage improvement do you expect from a conventional setup? I have no idea what these things can get on a long haul.

Smitty 10-25-2017 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepherd777 (Post 550692)
The rear of cab to trailer is an active aerodynamic, pneumatic mechanical origami-type device that articulates. It is constructed from aluminum tubes and sheet aluminum panels. It keys off a signal in our custom digital dash to deploy at 45 mph and it stows at 40 mph so the tractor and trailer can articulate. So at any speed below 40 mph, we have the standard gap between the tractor and the trailer. At 45 mph and above, it closes that gap.

Yes, it would work with a standard trailer as the device is cab-mounted. But a standard trailer with the StarShip tractor would just be a waste of fuel.

.

CAN you make the rear of cab / front of trailer curved like a ball & socket joint? That way it can turn left or right with minimal flow interruptions & no crunch points.
Make the back of the cab half-a-ball shaped, & the matching socket curvature at the front of the trailer. Or I guess you could make it the other way as well

Galane 10-25-2017 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 550846)
Now you need to apply your tech to diesel motor homes

Look up the 1990-1996 Navette motorhome. Only a few were built. One is a one of a kind on a Ford chassis (instead of the Isuzu the rest used), built special to haul the Kellogs Tony the Tiger hot air balloon.

Why they stopped production is the guy building them got cancer. He survived that but didn't restart production. Last I heard, he was wanting to sell all the tooling, parts on hand plus one complete Navette. The design would of course need to be adapted to a new chassis.

Wouldn't need a single thing changed on the exterior to look like it's from 2020. ;) 'Course something current would have to be adapted for the headlights.

navette [Tin Can Tourists Wiki]

1996 Navette Custom Built - TOY HAULER

freebeard 10-25-2017 09:07 PM

Twenty-year-old tooling and fabrication? One could probably do better stating over.

The Vixen had a BMW turbo-diesel.

Galane 10-26-2017 08:30 PM

The Vixen is older and not as slick as the Navette. The great granddaddy of aero RVs is the GMC. Unfortunately those still ended up with plenty of 'warts' poking out where General motors didn't use parts custom designed to be low drag.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com